Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#3322542 - 06/19/11 06:57 PM Dedicated Server Question(s)  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
rkirk77 Offline
Member
rkirk77  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
Ok, i just wanted to give fare warning.. I know very little about servers, manitaining them.. and so on..

I have acquired a space to start a dedicated server for RoF throught a company that i do work for. It will be running the Windows 2008 Server OS and it is located in Toronto ( I live about 3 hours away.. so i will control it through a Virtual Network ).

My Question :

Can RoF be run remotely on a "rack mounted" server that uses Win 2008 Server? I have had one person say "no" and another say "yes" .. so I am coming here to get a more accurate answer.



Last edited by rkirk77; 06/19/11 10:14 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3322550 - 06/19/11 07:09 PM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
Yes it will run no problem. ROF has a very limited game engine so there's no need to get some sort of high performance machine. You'll run well into the ground object or AI limitations before you ever have to worry about stressing a 2 or 3 core cpu (what I would recommend) The one thing you'll need is good bandwidth. With ROF clients and the server both streaming to each other and then the master browser, a full server can see upwards of 100mbps in upload speed depending on the mission. But usually by then the master browser will choke out and kill the stats and then the server. So you need to limit the server to about 45 people. Any more than that on a, what you would call populated for ROF, mission and the server is bound to crash.

You'll also need to run a batch file to keep your ROF server up. The master browser disconnects usually at least once a day, causing a server crash, which the batch file will keep it running for you. It's definitely needed if you plan on running the server for 24 hours a day.

#3322566 - 06/19/11 07:26 PM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
rkirk77 Offline
Member
rkirk77  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
Hi Bliss,

Ok that is really good to know! I got this server space for doing some graphic work for a client that runs professional servers (as in a ROOM of rack mounted multi-servers.. lol) and i will be testing out the Cloud they are setting up.. The servers run off of SSD's (Solid State Drive), which translates to lightning quick loading and response time!

PS, look this guy up.. he has the cheapest TS server prices i have sever seen.. 5 bux a month for 30 slots.. ( www.generation-host.com )

PSS, can i look you up if we have trouble and explain it a bit better? lol

thumbsup

#3322838 - 06/20/11 03:15 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,179
WWBrian Offline
Member
WWBrian  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,179
That's thee man right there to tell you how to run an awesome ROF server!


WingWalker (virtual) Combat Squadron

Intel i7 980X @3.8 GHz | ASUS P6X58D Premium | Antec 1200w PSU | 12GB 1600Mhz RAM
SLI - 2x eVGA GTX 580 3072MB vRAM | Dell 3007WFP 30" + 2x Dell 2007FP 20" @ 5388x1600 res.
Corsair Force GT 240GB SSD - O/S drive | Corsair Force 60GB SSD - ROF drive
WD VelociRaptor 300GB - Game drive | WD Black 1TB - Storage drive
CH HOTAS and TrackIR 5 +TCP | Realtek on-board sound | Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

#3322893 - 06/20/11 05:15 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
777 Studios - Jason Offline
Senior Member
777 Studios - Jason  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
Southern California or Moscow
Bliss is wrong when he says all computers stream data to the Master server in MP and he likes to imply thats why we can't have more than about 50 on a server because of this supposed limitation. Only the game server connects to the master server and that's just about 15kb worth of data every 30 seconds or so for scores and stats. I've mentioned this before. Bliss is only trying to give a back handed critique of ROF Multiplay disquised at a helping hand.

ROF synchs every bit of data between the Game server and the clients. Everything from falling debris to TrackIR head movements to animations of crew and airplane control surfaces therefore the amount of data is much higher than some other sims. As a result you can't have 100 people on an ROF server. You'll find that if you have a decent internet connection and a decent computer you can run a couple dozen people or more no problem.

As you know our engine is extremely complex and unlike other sims our engine utlizes the latest in multi-core processing, multi-gpu processors and complex mission design with triggers and all kinds of other fancy stuff etc. By no means is ROF a limted game engine.

Don't believe quite everything you may hear from others.

Jason

Last edited by 777 Studios - Jason; 06/20/11 05:16 AM.
#3322909 - 06/20/11 07:05 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
LOL Jason,

Believe it or not, there are cool things out there that can monitor bandwidth for every single IP address. Hate to burst your bubble or your insulting tone, but I can assure you that the master browser IP streams much more data than 15KB. If I wasn't deployed, I'd take a screen shot of the master browser's IP address and correlating bandwidth with a full server.

And then you go onto say the complexities are what causes the lack of more planes in a MP server?

Quote:
Everything from falling debris to TrackIR head movements to animations of crew and airplane control surfaces therefore the amount of data is much higher than some other sims.


WTF does that have to do with anything? IL2 does this. IL2COD does this. Both games are limited in MP only by the power of the dedicated server. 1000 planes no problem. 10,000 ground objects, no problem. If the dedicated machine isn't even using 5% of it's resources how can anything other than the game be at fault? We have a 1 GIGABYTE per second bandwidth connection. There isn't a single core ever close to being maxed on the server. The server uses 48 GIGs of DDR3. Bring on all the data you can. The reason you can't have more players is because the game engine is fricken limited.

If the master browser isn't being choked down with data, why is it always the 1st thing to lose connection before a server crashes? It should never disconnect if "DATA" as you call it is the problem. Instead that's the 1st sign things are going south.

I can't wait for the answer to that one!

Then you go on to say only the server is connected to the master browser? Are you serious? Before and client (aka players) log into any sort of online session, you have to log into it the master browser in the 1st place. Oh man. This is sad

And having complex triggers in the ME is laughable when you are limited to low numbers of ground objects or AI in a mission. Did you guys release a new patch that actually allows you to put some stuff in the trenches? You know, the stuff that was actually there in "the 1st great war".

No reason to get butthurt over the truth. But as someone who has ran a dedi server on the game since very close to the beginning, I know just how limited ROF is. And I've done plenty of testing to find the cause. It has absolutely nothing to do with the dedi machine or a good home pc. The game engine is flat out full of limitations.

You're right though. You can't believe everything you hear. Even from you Jason.

I'm really looking forward to your answers.

#3322916 - 06/20/11 07:20 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
777 Studios - Jason Offline
Senior Member
777 Studios - Jason  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
Southern California or Moscow
I just agree to disagree with you. I trust what the guys who built the game tell me. Be safe on your deployment.

Jason

#3322930 - 06/20/11 08:09 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 426
FiveDigits Offline
The Grim Squeaker
FiveDigits  Offline
The Grim Squeaker
Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 426
Germany
You couldn't be more wrong. The Syndicate boys have been supporting RoF from day 1 by providing the best and most reliable MP server.

#3322966 - 06/20/11 09:21 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
I didn't realize stating the truth is called knocking a sim. Never in my words did I say ROF is crap. I do own virtually every plane and I can guarantee there isn't a single person in all of the ROF community that's paid more money towards the game then I have.

If anything I said in my posts is untrue, by all means please show it to me. This may seem like a knock to you, but I actually do enjoy the sim and if the developers would fix some of the stuff I've been harping about for years, it would be as popular as IL2. But until then, the sim is nothing more than a WW1 FPS plane shooter. I buy combat flight sims, especially those created around a period of a world war, so I can be entranced into thinking I'm part of the war. I've been spoiled with IL2, but I was hoping a team would market and/or develop their own sim with a bit of analytical thinking as to why a certain other sim has remained so popular for so long. This is no different than what car manufacturers do, TV companies, or well, virtually everything that is marketed for sale in the world. It's called competition. And right now, from what I want from a flight sim, 1C will never have anything to fear from 777. If they can't simulate WWI, they sure as heck aren't going to come close to simulating all the stuff going on in WWII.

That's all I want. An actual simulation of the war I'm supposed to be flying in or a part of. A picture book and medals isn't going to cut it for me. I need to see it in the cockpit.

#3322971 - 06/20/11 09:52 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
Juergen Offline
Member
Juergen  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
Bliss, what "part of the war" thing do you mean in connection with IL2 ? I played it some time as well, and I didn´t see all those things you are missing in ROF there either. Or has there been ground war I did overlook ?

On the other hand, the limitation to 45 players in ROF starts to be a problem, as it happens already, that syndicate and helliquines servers are full. If the popularity of ROF rises, 777 should think about reducing the load per plane (...and sacrifice some reality, that is not impacting the game too much - synchronized debris f.e.), as to get the max. numbers per server up to at least 100. I like the big syndicate maps, but 20 planes per side is too less for them.

Last edited by Juergen; 06/20/11 10:10 AM.
#3322972 - 06/20/11 10:04 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
You'd have to play in something like SEOW or ADW to see how massive the online war is. Or you could just simply open up the FMB. No SP mission came in IL2 this way. These were all created by the community. But when the community tries to do the same thing with ROF (create the war you are flying in) ROF missions won't even load beyond a certain amount of objects or AI planes simply because the game engine is very limited. It's a shame if you've never flown in a war scenario atmosphere in IL2. It sets the bar pretty high as far as immersion.

#3322977 - 06/20/11 10:20 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
Juergen Offline
Member
Juergen  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
OK, i will inform me about SEOW and ADW. The reason why IL2 flew from my HDD was the numbers of different patches out there. That´s one of the advantages of ROF: everybody has the right version to fly on every server !

But in the meantime i am used to the quality of the ROF FM. I don´t think i could enjoy IL2 any more cause of the "old" FM. I am dissapointed of the CoD-FM as well (take off and landings are not near ROF, because the interaction with the ground isn´t modelled at all - but hopefully they will care about it some day in the future).

Nevertheless the numbers of planes per server have to go up substantially - i agree on that point. But I think it is possible. Up to now, 777 always listened closely to the demands of the community (more than any other developers ever did). So i think they will do something about it.

Last edited by Juergen; 06/20/11 10:29 AM.
#3323641 - 06/21/11 01:26 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
rkirk77 Offline
Member
rkirk77  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 104
Umm, wow.. I just wanted to know if i could put up a server on a VPS..

I think we have ourselves a bet here !

Bliss states that RoF cannot handle more than 50 people on at more than one time?

I accept the challenge, as i will set the user limit to 64. So lets set a date for this event to happen so we can settle this !

#3323834 - 06/21/11 08:48 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
If you take the lake map and strip it of every single object in the mission besides your central and entente airfields (spawn points) you could get around 70. But for instance if 30 of those planes dropped bombs at the same time, the server will crash. If 30 of those planes lawn darted into the ground one after another the server will crash.

So you will get 64, (we used to have 65 regularly and have had 70 connected before) but you'll have to follow those guidelines. Start adding objects and a bigger map and you'll notice the number of online players limits (before the master browser disconnects / massive total lag / or a server crash) significantly decreases.

#3323844 - 06/21/11 09:24 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 97
SYN_Jedders Offline
Junior Member
SYN_Jedders  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 97
I think Bliss has earned the right to state his opinion on this subject given his extensive input in BETA testing, financial input and server management. Doesnt have to mean you have to agree with him. Blister is passionate about simming. That should be welcomed by the developers. After all, it was the SYN server that Bliss paid for out of his own wages while on deployment that was regularly used for BETA tests by 777 to try and find the limits of this engine.

Despite that, I know that Bliss is anything but "elitist" and I know he has a lot of respect for 777 and Jason in particular. For us, not just bliss, we feel that the RoF engine is like having a ferrari with a beetle engine in it. Looks great but throttled performance.

Still love it tho!

If you want any info on running a dedi server to the absolute best of its ability in RoF I suggest you get in contact with Vander over at www.syndicatesquadron.com Im pretty sure there isnt much he doesnt know about running it.

#3323860 - 06/21/11 10:09 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 210
MattM Offline
Member
MattM  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 210
Originally Posted By: rkirk77
Bliss states that RoF cannot handle more than 50 people on at more than one time?

I accept the challenge, as i will set the user limit to 64. So lets set a date for this event to happen so we can settle this !

You sound like you have first hand experience.

Well, we're running hellequins server and i can only agree with Bliss here.

49 players is the absolute maximum and when the server is full, it's quite unstable and it crashes often enough. And when it crashes, it depends on luck alone, if it's possible to log-in again.

And then of course the server admins get blamed when that happens. It's not that much fun to be responsible for running a ROF server.

Some people even blamed us for causing master-server crashes, because we have so many people on our server...
duh

#3323877 - 06/21/11 10:55 AM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
Juergen Offline
Member
Juergen  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
I totally agree that 49 players shouldn´t be the maximum. 777 should consider a function for dedicated servers to switch off several animations and effects to restrict the data necessary for 1 player. That way a training server for 12 players or a duel server could leave it at "full reality" and an online war server for 200 players can reduce the load to the minimum required. Control surface movements and head movements could be sacrificed for that purpose.

#3323977 - 06/21/11 01:31 PM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: SYN_Jedders]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 457
Masaq Offline
T&T Admin
Masaq  Offline
T&T Admin
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 457
UK
Originally Posted By: SYN_Jed
Despite that, I know that Bliss is anything but "elitist" and I know he has a lot of respect for 777 and Jason in particular. For us, not just bliss, we feel that the RoF engine is like having a ferrari with a beetle engine in it. Looks great but throttled performance.


This is probably semantics, but the reason performance is so sketchy is because the engine is doing so much. It's like having a Ferrari with a Ferrari engine in it, but in addition to driving the car forward the engine is also being used to run the aircon, power the ICE, and run an in-car espresso machine as well.

#3323999 - 06/21/11 01:55 PM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
Nope don't buy it. The only reason the engine aka software is doing anything is through the hardware used to run it. If said hardware isn't being stressed at all, said software is either limited or coded poorly.

#3324406 - 06/21/11 08:28 PM Re: Dedicated Server Question(s) [Re: rkirk77]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
ATAG_Bliss Offline
Member
ATAG_Bliss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 638
Posted by 777 regarding a thread about the game's limitations. Since he won't answer it on his own forums with a logical response. It might as well be known on a public simming forum.


Quote:

As much as I like spirited discourse, this thread goes too far as do many threads unfortunately. Now I have to give hard straight answers that no one likes to hear.

1. Any more threads like this will be deleted. They are not constructive for anyone.

2. You don't have to like me personally, I just want you to like the product. And don't worry about making me rich if you don't like me. Trust me, none of us on the team are. I work another job on top of 777 to make ends meet. I don't pretend or want to be a rock star. I'm just a working stiff like you.

3. I get a lot of PMs and emails about many things throughout the day. Several hundred a week. I simply don't respond to all of them. As much as we would like, neither I or the team has the time to have conversations with everyone who writes us. Viks handles all the Customer Service stuff and he should be responding to everyone of those issues. As far as anything else sent my way, if it's necessary to respond or we're close friends I will respond. If you think I'm too aloof, compare my overall involvement to other sim makers and how often they give info and answer your questions. I think I'm pretty accessible, even if I don't have time or don't feel like answering every question.

4. And sending me violent threats via email and snail mail does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy about the community. It's a video game and not worth going to jail over or dying over.

5. We don't owe anyone a complete technical response to something they do not like or do not understand. We have given explanations for things some folks don't like and if the answer doesn't suit you then I'm sorry, but that's our answer. Choose to believe our answer or not, it's up to you. But continuing to brow beat and argue with people in our forum for not good reason will not be tolerated. No one is forcing you to play this game. Move on if you don't like it. Passion for a product is one thing. Unhinged obsession is another and I see it all the time on game forums. It's really scary for those that make the product.

6. We make many decisions as a team that we know some people will like and others will not. It's always a difficult process to make these decisions. Sometimes we make mistakes and try to correct. Other times there are just limitations to what we have made that either cannot be corrected easily or is too expensive to correct in a timely fashion. And sometimes, we simply feel it is not necessary to change something. And it's our choice whether or not we try to change or fix something. I'll let our track record of changes and fixes to better reflect the community's wishes speak for itself. But again, some things may never be changed to your satisfaction.

7. Spreading false information about our product will not necessarily go unchallenged by me or the team. As much as it is your right to criticize ROF it is our right to defend it. And we do let you criticize it believe me. This forum and others are proof to that fact. But bringing a personal bent to your criticisms crosses the line as we reserve the right to edit and control the information posted on our forum. And this goes for me too. I will no longer respond to anyone I feel I can only respond to in a personal manner and will simply delete the entire thread or post.

We've been committed to giving you a quality product from Day 1. We think we have succeeded in that quest. We continue on for those that appreciate our work and for those that have supported us. But there is more to life than just flight-simming and I wish the community was a little more friendly and less combative for all our sake.

Some of you will find this response to be self-righteous and just piss you off, but I nor the team can win in situations like this, so all we can do is give a straight, albeit kurt answer. We have other things to do.

I will delete this thread at the end of the day.

Moderators - please alert me if there are any other threads like this that still exist or pop up.

Jason



Starting at #3 - Completely understandable

#4 Don't know who would send you life threatening emails/PMs but that's pathetic.

#5. You do owe someone a technical response if your original excuse to the problem at hand is easily proven a farse. The master browser streams more than 15KB of data. I WILL show you that once I'm back home. So you or your team either lied to the community, or you are covering up something else at fault with the code. Either way what you said is easily proven wrong. I enjoy problem solving. That's what I do. So when I see a problem and have been given the reason for said problem, I will go and test that hypothesis. Sadly, the testing shows to be completely different than what you have told everyone. To give you an idea, the server identity logging into the master browser (0 players connected) will use over 80KB by itself before a single human player has joined. Again, all easily seen via bandwidth usage of the master browser IP address.

#6 I completely understand the feasibility of certain things. That's why the only thing I asked for is a truthful response as to why the said problem is there. If you say this won't ever be fixed or looked at in the future, at least I would know about it. But to simply lock a thread or delete it because of concerns raised by some of the biggest supporters of your game is not a very wise move.

#7 I would like to know what false information is spread about your game that I have written (if this was directed at me) The people that run populated servers can fully attest to the problems and how they start with the master browser failures. Simply read your own forums. The game engine will support only what I have stated before. If you would like sample missions to show this to you, I will attach them for you. Just because the information is stuff you don't like to hear, does not make it any less valid. Sweeping it under the carpet just makes you look bad.

I agree fully that you have a great commitment to a quality product. But I also feel unless you get the object or AI limitations fixed it's never gonna be at the level it should be or IMO, supposed to be. Again this is my opinion, but I'm sure it's shared by many.

You may think that people give you stern questions because of hate, when instead it's because they really do enjoy the game. At the end of the day it is only a flight sim (video game), but people spend thousands to enjoy that hobby. Just as I've spent well over 100k to enjoy my horsepower addiction.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT, Wklink 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Headphones
by RossUK. 04/24/24 03:48 PM
Skymaster down.
by Mr_Blastman. 04/24/24 03:28 PM
The Old Breed and the Costs of War
by wormfood. 04/24/24 01:39 PM
Actors portraying British Prime Ministers
by Tarnsman. 04/24/24 01:11 AM
Roy Cross is 100 Years Old
by F4UDash4. 04/23/24 11:22 AM
Actors portraying US Presidents
by PanzerMeyer. 04/19/24 12:19 PM
Dickey Betts was 80
by Rick_Rawlings. 04/19/24 01:11 AM
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0