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#3303504 - 05/25/11 03:57 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign **** [Re: Para_Bellum]
oldgrognard Offline
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I would think the key is to keep the units from being mangled or destroyed. Ground can always be retaken if you have fit units.
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#3303650 - 05/25/11 06:46 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: oldgrognard]
Ssnake Offline
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Registered: 12/16/99
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Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
I would think the key is to keep the units from being mangled or destroyed. Ground can always be retaken if you have fit units.

In reality, yes. The question is, which abstractions does WitE make with respect to resupply, industrial capacity, and the ability to draft the population into military service. Depending on the answer, the game mechanics may reward holding on to certain cities even if that means to sacrifice a number of divisions. Admittedly it doesn't look like it from the countless number of red icons. Then again, we don't know how much WORSE it would be without holding Moscow and a number of other cities that now are in German possession (but weren't in reality).

It also seems to me that Para's advance was a bit faster than what the Wehrmacht historically achieved, so not only did he hurt the Soviets in this game even more and preserved his own forces better, the more rapid advance should have eventually prevented the relocation of some more of the industrial capacity of the Soviets than what historically fell into German hands. Furthermore, Para, with the benefit of hindsight, managed to prepare better for the winter (at least WRT reinforcing the frontline by a cessation of the advance at the beginning of the mud period). My impression is, he is about as good as the game will possibly allow you to be, so this should be a good experiment to see to which extent WitE takes these factors into account.

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#3304197 - 05/26/11 12:13 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Ssnake]
Heretic Offline
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Registered: 10/12/06
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Originally Posted By: Ssnake
It also seems to me that Para's advance was a bit faster than what the Wehrmacht historically achieved, so not only did he hurt the Soviets in this game even more and preserved his own forces better, the more rapid advance should have eventually prevented the relocation of some more of the industrial capacity of the Soviets than what historically fell into German hands.


Having watched a nice documentary on Barbarossa yesterday, Para is only a wee bit ahead of the positions the Wehrmacht could have held, if Hitler hadn't stopped it multiple times.
Capturing Leningrad was definately an option, but the GröFAZ didn't want to supply millions of civilians over the course of a winter and preferred besieging and starving them.
And considering that advance units got to a point 20kms away from the Kremlin with a longer R&R break, capturing Moscow *was* an option indeed!
Heck, even the real Wehrmacht got kicked out of Rostov after capturing it!

Para saved valuable time by e.g. pincering his way around a soviet army before capturing Kiev or making the Leningrad pocket larger than it was in reality (and thus not having to struggle his way into and out of Schlüsselburg).

All in all, I'm amazed how plausible Paras playthrough is (+/-5%). It really depicts how Barbarossa could have been without all the "yes/no, stop/advance" from above...


Edited by Heretic (05/26/11 12:13 PM)
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#3304309 - 05/26/11 02:14 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
Ssnake Offline
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Well, proof that sufficiently sophisticated wargames can indeed predict the past.

wink

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#3304325 - 05/26/11 02:24 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
oldgrognard Offline
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I think he is pretty well ahead. Leneigrad can be seen as either way. However taking Moscow is a huge difference. Yes some elements of the German Army got close to Moscow, but that is a far cry from taking it. You think Stalingrad was a meatgrinder - Moscow would have been the same or worse. The German Army was at its full extension just to get near. There was no strength to take and hold it. This is a very big improvement in results compared t historical. Coupled with Leningrad and the advance in the south, he is doing much better than history.
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#3307926 - 05/31/11 03:58 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
oldgrognard Offline
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OK, well past time for another update.
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#3308009 - 05/31/11 05:43 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
Para_Bellum Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
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Terribly busy ATM, no update before the weekend, sorry.
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#3308122 - 05/31/11 08:41 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
Zero Niner Offline
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Registered: 11/25/99
Posts: 1363
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Terribly busy ATM, no update before the weekend, sorry.

frown

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#3311203 - 06/05/11 03:15 AM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
Zero Niner Offline
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Registered: 11/25/99
Posts: 1363
Loc: Singapore
Right. Here we all are, anxiously awaiting news from the Eastern Front, and Feldmarshal Para_Bellum decides to go mountin climbing!
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3310076/It_s_that_time_of_the_year_aga.html#Post3310076
Get on with it PB! Der Fuhrer's getting impatient! biggrin

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#3311457 - 06/05/11 03:40 PM Re: WitE: Grand Campaign [Re: Para_Bellum]
Dick Dastardly Offline
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Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 4527
Loc: Earth
The Grail isn't up there, and even if it was you saw the movie, it won't end well. Now get back to Rastenburg! biggrin
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