Hi All,

Hope everybody is well.. I have been pondering a new system well actually a few new DLP Projectors but first I think I would like to get a new system..

Here are the parts I had in mind:

1. Asus Sabertooth P67 MotherBoard..
2. Intel i7 2600k
3. 1366 DDR3 Memory not sure which brand yet??
4. Get another GTX470 Vid card..
5. Possibly get a new PSU


I was going to do a backup of programs and such and then just do a Fresh install of Win 7 after installing he new hardware. I may just do a Settings and transfer wizard transfer and just reinstall all my games. which really isnt all that much..

So anybody have any reccomendations or changes they would make??

The Budget is about 6-700 Bucks USD!

EDIT: I also chose this mobo as it has a PCI slot in the last slot which is important as I have a PCI sound card I just bought so I will not upgrade that..

Thank You
The_Nephilim..

Since budget is important, do I have a PSU for you Its the one in my system below -- your system should be less power hungry. Moreover, I ordered a second one (arriving tomorrow) as I stockpile "bargain" components for my Bulldozer system. Rebate expires in 3 days.

XFX 650W at 50C Single Rail $59 Delivered

Being a GSKILL fan here's 8GB of CAS 7 1333 memory for $84 -- sale ends TODAY.

GSKILL 8GB CAS 7 $84

Were I buying Intel, I agree with the 2600K for long useful life and hyperthreading. Of course, being an AMD fan, I would wait for Bulldozer -- but, what the heck

Anyhow, good luck with your new system


PS Your CM Hyper 212 heatsink will do the OC job.

I'm with Allen. GSKILL. Get two sticks of 4Gb and you are good.

I'm not sure if a 650W PSU is enough for two 470s.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-2-3-way-sli-review/23

Pretty much the same here except for the graphics card of course. Runs DCA A10c with most settings on high extremely well!

You might want to sell that 470. I saw the GTX570 a week ago at the egg for 285 and the 570 is pretty even with a couple of 470s.

Hmm You maybe right I just did the Antec Calc I need at least 1000w, Even for my current system If I add another 470..

I may just get the 470 and new PSU and see how that goes maybe It will be a good boost adding the 2nd card, according to that guide you linked it should be..

According to info in the box, AMD/ATI recommended 650W PSU for Crossfire using my cards. My PSU provides that at a case temperature of 50C (according to specs) -- thus as the PSU heats up, power is no problem.

Based on software with my UPS, in an actual test conducted as I was writing this, my system below (not including monitors) draws just about 525W from the PSU (600W at the wall plug) -- with two HD5870 at 100 percent plus OC 6 core Phenom II at 100 percent. So, 650W from a quality PSU is adequate for my AMD/ATI system -- as they said it would be. I ran Heaven 2.5 to stress the cards and simultaneously Prime 95 in maximum power draw mode to stress the CPU. I used AMD System Monitor to verify 100 percent stress of the cards and all 6 cores simultaneously.

I notice this roughly similar to the 2x HD5870 numbers in the Guru article.

The monitors draw in the range of roughly 60W+ each.

Info FWIW.


PS: I notice GTX470 (and HD5870) are pretty much "sold out" at Newegg. The new, unused ones remaining are priced way too high today (I paid approx $205 each for my HD5870s). Thus, if considering an extra GTX470, there may not be much time left to decide -- and find a reasonably priced card.

I noticed those 470 prices. They are way too much. The 560ti is faster and cheaper. If you have to have a 470 there is no choice though.

What sound card populates the PCI slot?

the Realtek ALC892 is a pretty good chip, if your not using high quality sound setup or hi quality headphones, save the PCI slot, Save the driver fighting, and save the memorylane/irq addresses and use the onboard.

But. If if your using a nice sound system… depending on what card your using, by all means.

I know a lot of people that have removed their discrete sound card in favor of on board SPUs in the last few years.

Well I just thought since I already had a 470 just get another. the cost for 2 570's is gonna be around 650-700Dollars..the 470 is gonna just run another 200 bucks.I think I'll just get another 470..

As for the sound card I have a Rocketfish, a Creative based card I just bought it as the onboard sound on this mobo was a addon card PCIe1x and that slot is occupied by my Network card. and this board only has 1 PCIe1x slot.

Does the Realtek onboard sound have any effects and EAX??

Hello Nephilim, well I would honestly wait what AMD has up their sleeve in the fall, but if you want to buy now this system seems pretty solid. I don´t know about the 470, i bought myself an 570 and its running very well, but that is your decision if you want to build an SLI system. To me it uses way to much juice and then there is the problem of the micro-stutters, which seemingly still persist. Also the 570 uses less juice than the 470.

To the soundcard, if you want to use a soundcard, shut down the onboard sound, it usually gives one a lot of trouble. I wouldn´t for my life use an oboard sound, i´ve got a decent, if old, soundsystem and you´ll hear the difference. I´ve got an auzentech X-Fi fort and i haven´t had any trouble over the last year, and soundquality is very good, even though a record player still beats everything else. The Auzentech driver work well. The most people i know that don´t use a soundcard, haven´t used one before and we who have one will never give it away. The biggest problem is more that there are no good PCIe x1 slots availlable, but loads of PCI-slots. I mean some people still have PCI-soundcards, like the Auzentech Meridian, but you don´t need three of them anymore, they could easily swap two of them for PCIe x1-slots. Also there are loads of mainboards with two graphic slots, even if the majority still uses only one graphics card. Whatching movies with it is a blast, in the true sense of the word!

The decision with the PCIe slot is a wise one, i first bought a Gigabyte MA-770T-UD3P for the exact same reason and i now have to use the 770TA-UD3 which has more connectors but the souncard is wedged between the graphics card, the northbridge and the processor in a hellish hotspot, which means i´ll have to turn up the fans much more than i want and keep an eye on the temperature readouts of the fan control. If you want one, I can reccomend the Scythe Kaze Master Pro, cheaper than LianLi and they still look good in a LianLi case. One of the best investments i´ve ever made.

As they said, buy 8 GB or more if you can afford it, its good for gaming and especially good if you work with this PC, for example when you develop photos with Lightroom or want to do a lot of things side-by-side.

The realtek is more of a codec and and a chip, the rest is based on manufacturers, mostly the converters aren´t that good, and if you compare an auzentech X-Fi to a creative X-Fi, you´ll hear the difference they make. Realtek usually has only EAX 2, but the importance of EAX dimishes, OpenAL is the new standard. Still if you play old games too, EAX helps and only with Creative based cards, you´ll get the Alchemy Wrapper, which enables the 3D sound in older games like ArmA. Also the X-Fi have 128 voices aivallable so 128 different sounds, there is no information how much the Realtek does have. It just gives a fuller sound "picture", you can hear out a lot of more details, if the game supports it, that is awesome, you can do it for example in Mass Effect or in ArmA 2. The CMSS 3D is also quite good if you use a stereo headphone instead of a sourround headphone or a sourround sound system. One of my friends had onboard sound for a good while and after he heard the soundcard of another friend in comparison, he bought a soundcard in his next pc, and he never wanted to go back to onboard sound, if you ever chose onboard sound, you will never go back.

so the 470 experiences micro stutters?? would it get worse with SLI?? Does the 570 have the micro stutters??

I could wait a while and get the 2 570's in the future, and just sell this 470 on ebay.

Anyone??


Also How could I tell, say If I got 2 new 570's what would be the Bottleneck in my system?? is there some sort of Test I could do to say for instance your CPU is the Bottleneck and know for sure it is??

Does that make sence?

As your system is Intel/Nvidia, I do not know what software to download in particular. However, your motherboard may have a system monitor software included that gives per core CPU usage (mine does). I can also download an AMD application that gives per core and per GPU percent usage. I imagine you can get the same -- maybe separately -- i.e. Nvidia GPU usage software. Others have posted of such software -- maybe they will chime in.

Anyhow, run the game of your choice while monitoring per core CPU usage. If one or more cores remain at near 100 percent during a game, then the GPU means less as the CPU is at 100 percent and is limiting.

If the game of your choice has the CPU cores running at much less than 100 percent, then a GPU upgrade will help. Particularly, if the GPU usage is 100 percent.

For me, that happens with IL2-1946. I get one CPU core 100 percent during a Black Death benchmark (IL2 only uses one core). So, at 100 percent, its CPU limited. A better GPU or Crossfire does nothing for me. However, a CPU overclock of 10 percent gives me 10 percent more FPS by actual test.

On the other hand, Heaven 2.5 DX11 benchmark uses the GPU 100 percent according to the GPU monitor software. So the GPU is limiting. I need more GPU or a second GPU -- sure enough, Crossfire dramatically improves FPS in Heaven 2.5. Improving the CPU will do no good as the CPU is only half used (according to the system monitor software). And, tests bear that out.

FWIW.

Well I have MSI AB for the GPU.. looking for a Intel CPU Checker;;




I had the AI suite from Asus which gave me the Percentage CPU core used..

I ran LOTRO and it was about 83% CPU and 45% GPU,, Looks to be like a cpu upgrade may need to be first..

Well after running ROF the CPU was maxxed at 100% and still getting stutters even after lowering the settings..I think FC2 will be similar but not as bad..

looks to be time for an upgrade..

Well I decided on these components any changes needed Please feel free to add comments..





http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131702



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455





I was wondering is there Any SLI capable boards that do SLI 16x ...x 16x instead of 8x x 8x?It seemed every board I looked at did that?? Will that mena running SLI is Slower Overall??

I will start purchasing probally tomorrow. Thinking of getting the RAM first..

I think microstutters are caused by SLI, not the 470 card.

I would read this article if you are concerned about SLI 16x or 8x. The P67 is the winner.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p67-gaming-3-way-sli-three-card-crossfire,2910.html

Well currently I have a single 470 and experience Micro stutter?? LOTRO gets the microstutter even if I turn Down the settings ??

Thnx for the link abou SLI Speeds doesnt seem to matter much. about near 1 FPS loss in Most cases hardly enough to be concerned about, thnx..

Not sure what you are experiencing, my friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

Could it be Latency/Timing issue w/ Bios?

Well it could be a Latency issue as it is an Online Only game?? Will look more into what kind of Latency I get to the Server I join??

games like Arma 2 OA work ok??

Not knowledgeable about Intel motherboards. Given that caveat, your selected components are ones I would be happy to purchase, if I wanted a top class Intel gaming system.

Latency Timing Issue with the Chipset and the PCIe Slot, not latency Issue with the Server.

There should be a setting in the BIOS for PCIE Latency, which controls how long a device can hold bandwidth on the bus.

Microstuttering is an SLi issue, so you can't say its microstuttering on a single card, its gotta be something else (ram peak, bandwidth peak, cpu/gpu peak, cpu/gpu throttling, etc)


As for 8X/8X PCIe 2.0 Boards,


I Doubt any Single GPU Graphics Card uses the Full 16X Bandwidth on a 2.0/2.1 Slot,
Think About it, they have two GPUs on the 5970, 5780x2, 6990, 460 2Win, 590, 595TI, and they run a Single PCIeX16 2.x slot with Bandwidth to spare.

So Running 8x/8x Cross Fire/SLi isnt slowing anything down.

Hmmm It appears the GPU is at 50%GPU and 77%CPU in LOTRO??

Oh and I looked in BIOS I did NOT See a Latency timer or similar?? The Only thing I saw concerning the Vid card bus slot was an OC section to overclock the bus itself??

Well Micro-stutters still seem to be a problem and its afaik caused by the SLI not by the Card. SLI and Crossfire both use the AFR (Alternate Frame Rendering) Method, in which one card renders one frame and the other the next frame. The Problem is however that those frames might be totally different from the workload they produce. Lets say in one frame you are shooting at a gastank and in the next it should explode, very simplified i know, then the shooting frame does not make as much work as the one with the explosion and the card might take longer to make the second frame.

There is another Method called split frame rendering in which the frame itself gets cut into two halves, and both cards work on each half. There is a sub-mode of that, which can base how much of the frame one card is rendering on the load of that part. Say when you are flying around in the FSX you´ll have ground below you and the sky above you, well usually the sky isn´t as much work as the ground, and the program knows this and says ok since the ground is more work card 1 is going to do the lower one third (ground only) and card 2 the upper two thirds (sky and a bit of ground). AFAIK that mode is far more effective, but not used extensively since AFR is much more compatible.

Don't OC the bus on the video card.

No I don't but I have tried it once long time ago didnt boot..

Are you running in SLi or single card?

Lookin at mainboard BIOS options for your board, please check and report settings for:


nVidia GPU Ex: [Disabled/Auto]

I am running a single card right now.. I also have the EX Enabled??

try with it disabled, i couldnt find anything about it, ASUS claims it speeds up nVidia cards. but it could also cause issues if nVidia changed their hardware after Asus developed the EX.

Also whats you GPU memory Usage and System Usage during the stutters.

I will try disabled for the EX..

im looking for Memory Usage, not Core Usage,

if your filling up the 1GB of memory and using more than that your gonna get contant stuttering as textures load from the system to the card as they are needed.

well it appears I am using 245mb of Video Memory?? I have 1280mb of vid memory and the system memory I doubt is being ALL used I have 8gb of System memory??


I think it is Lag with the game server..I more then meet the system specs of the game??

it maybe lag with the game server then.

My brother plays MMOs and at times the game runs in slo-mo... or it just hops and skips frames left and right depending on how many people are in the same "area" he's in.

Ya Kinda sucks their Servers are that bad..

I sold my MAtrox TH2Go unit and will be getting another 470 for SLI. Cant wait till I can bump up the rez and Hz in mt Projector....

Will have to ship the Unit tomorrow and hopefully I can get the money to ship it hehe!!

I sold it on Amazon and they use a bank account info and I have to disburse it to get paid asap but will still take up to 5 days.. Some people may frown on PayPal but at least I can access up to $300USD of my money immedietely at the ATM with PP..

Well I have an updated list so here it goes.. I will be getting the following in Order:

1. 1 - PNY GeFroce 470GTX for SLI..
2. ON HOLD!!
3. Intel 2500K SB
4. Asus P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68
5. G. Skill 8gb 18600DDR3

So probally after I buy those new projectors. there maybe some nerw Gear to hit the shelves and will either still get this or opt for something newer.. I hear the enthusiast platform is comming soon..

So I am trying to sell my Current Sharp XR10XL DLP Projectors now to get the new Certified S3D Projectors..man I hate upgraditis syndrome..


EDIT: I was thinking should I go with 2 new 570's instead of the 2 470's?? would there be a difference in performance?

Shoulde I go with the 570's SLI VS. the 470's SLI??

570 is faster. Even the 560Ti is faster than the 470.

Yes It Appears it is a bit faster but I wonder how much in the sims I run?? They seem to have the most commonly played games out there like Crysis and such Games I would never play..

I am at a crossroads do I upgrade the vid card to a 470 Leaning Heavy on that idea, and get 3 New S3D Certified Projectors or the PC Upgrade alone??

well I pulled the trigger on the components minus the CPU I will be getting that locally and save 30bucks..

I think I will get that today..going now to the Store..

I also opted for just 4gb ram dont think 8gb is needed..

Now do I sell my old stuff or keep it for a 2nd rig and my old school S3D setup??

Well I just got back from the store and have the CPU in hand.. I ordered the other parts from newegg so it will take a few days to get them shipped to me. I kniow there is a local hub so hopefully thery ship from there and I might get the parts by friday..


[b] EDIT: Looks like they shipped all 3 items from close by I might even get them by tomorrow.. Starting to prime up the PC for the Switch. I am going to try a trick so I will NOT have to reinstall windows, I hope it works if not no big deal there are just a few games. and most of the important stuff I already setup with the Transfer Wizard..

I just opted to reinstall Win7 and it was rather smooth of a transition..

Frames are up in all games.. waiting to see how they do with S3D Enabled..

I am going to have to get a more powerfull PSU to get the system OC'd. I can't wait i'll I get some OC in and run the heaven benchmark again to see if OC'ng actually produces a higher score,plus I hope the FPS increase as well..

ROF, Iactually can play that now as before I had a dual core it experienced stutters and it was a known issue with that Sim and Dual cores..now the i5 just plays it at some playable frames and I could actually dogfight without the lag and stutters..

I am also currently trying to get another TH2Go so I can enable S3D Again on my noncertified DLP PRojectors..