I love RoF, don't get me wrong, and I can understand paying for different airplanes and all of that, seeing as I have bought all of the fighters. Buying a whole new airplane to fly for just about 7 dollars is a very good price. I saw that the field mods were going to be costing anywhere from 1 dollar, to 5 dollars and this is what made me upset. I feel as if they should all be free or at the very most a dollar or two. Paying for a cockpit lamp and fuel gauges and such should come with the airplane instead of us having to pay an extra five dollars. ( sorry if this is too "nit-picky" but I'm a pilot in the real world and also a college student. Every dollar I have goes to flying at the moment )

This is in no way bashing RoF or 777 studios in any form, just merely some guys thoughts on the subject. RoF has been my main sim for the past couple of years and I've followed it from the very beginning. After all, I can't be the only one feeling like this?

Jared, it looks like you haven't been reading the forum recently. There was another thread here that ran on for several days discussing/debating this. It is now deleted (I think) because it became too argumentative.

In a nutshell: the mods are optional. You don't have to buy any of them to enjoy RoF. And you can choose to buy the ones you want if you find them worth it. The team worked hard to make the mods possible. Likewise, they have and are working hard to make the new career system possible. And they have worked hard in the past to provide other enhancements to our game. Some of those things they have given away for free. Some they charge for. They do need some form of regular revenue or they cannot sustain development of further improvements. While it is convenient to think the product of someone else's labor should be free (or priced very low), it is their call when and how much to charge for their efforts.

I see your point jared, but consider this if you will...


So you bought a car....at time of purchase you thought it a fair price......

Now, you go to some car parts place, and see all these cool gadgets and accessories made just for your type of car!

Should they all be given to you?

Of course not. Someone spent the time and effort to make those gadgets and accesories, they should properly be paid for that effort.


You don't need them, your car will run just fine without them...

So what if others bought them, it doesn't make your car any less adequate.

Be happy with the car you have at the price you paid. When you can afford more, get some fancy stuff.

This issue has been discussed to death. (You obviously weren't around here over the weekend and missed the now-locked thread on the subject.)

Suffice it to say there are some who agree with you, but others (probably the majority) are OK with the field mod pricing. Everyone likes free best, but I think most recognize that 777 has to make money to continue improving ROF. DLC has become more common across all game genres; ROF is far from unique in this regard.

Personally, I'm okay with the pricing, the whole field mod idea, etc. Except for one thing, the Aldis on the SE-5a should most definitely be free (pretty much standard equipment from factory, I believe). That's my only gripe, otherwise, 777 is doing a great job.

Just some notes i made first to myself:

- nobody forces you to buy them all, buy one-two for the planes you fly most, and choose those field mods that are completely different.
- Spad XIII and Albatros DVa field mods come free.
- if you ask why field mods which are the same have to be bought separately/again 'for each plane' - (i asked myself that some time ago), i found on the russian forums one post of Petrovik i think, who said that they had to modify each plane to make room for the field mod, also in some cases animations or (i think) 3d structure was also modified. So if i think at the work, not at the mod similarity between planes, i can justify *for myself* separate buying of same-looking mods.

Ah, and don't buy 13 mods, it gives you bad luck :P buy 14 and you will pay less

I'm pleased that we can get something nice and support 777 Studios in the process. However, I am not at all happy that the precedent has been set that one can pay money to unlock additional game features which improve one's success rate. That's a nasty slippery slope right there. The Fokker D.VIIF was bad enough. Now this ... what next? Paying to have fewer gun jams? Paying to have higher fuel grades? If that happens, it's going to end up like one of those M.M.O.R.P.G.s where he who has the most real-world money wins.

So, I don't think that the field mods are over-priced, and I think that 777 Studios deserves the money for the work they put in. But I'm not happy about the principle of paying to win more (sure, you could say that about simming equipment, but there's no getting around that), so overall I'm not sure if the field mods are a good thing or not. If nothing else, I'm worried that it may drive new players away, because it's already extremely difficult for new players, and when they find out that they have an additional disadvantage because they haven't paid to unlock some of the success-increasing features ...

In reality, aircraft mods would be given to experienced pilots that have proven themselves in combat. Charging for a new plane is one thing, paying for mods sounds like fleecing your loyal customers. I know it is optional but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Gonna wait for a while to see how the bundles and new campaign work out before spending anymore money on new aircraft. I would rather payI for new Northsea/England or Middle East campaign maps and add mods at the same time.

In the year I have owned ROF I have spend more money than I spend on the whole IL2 series over 9 years. For me not a problem but for the younger upcoming generation maybe a reason to not get into ROF at all I am still a fan of campaign based, paid installments. This will give a more balanced planeset over time.

If the team ever moves to another timeframe I hope they will consider dropping the pay per plane/hubcap/luckyrabbit foot scheme and go the map/campaign route.

@Josh: I guess they could go down the IL-2 route and offer every sub-variant of an aircraft ever made so that we can select to fly the field-modded SE5a with the Aldis, or the D.VIIF with the Collimator sight. Of course, with their economic model, that would involve us having to buy these variants. So buying mods is actually cheaper.

In addition, the pay to win argument is interesting because we already have that with flight sims in general and in RoF, specifically, with the need to buy planes. If you go on a MP server with the OEM planes only, you stand a good chance of being behind the curve against others who have bought, for example, the Camel, DR.1 or D.VIIF. Also, as you mentioned, it's already an uneven playing field when you factor in that some folks are flying on triple-head monitor configurations or super large HD screens with bleeding-edge-fast CPUs and GPUs. They have the best HOTAS setups -- basically all the gear to make the game run as best as possible and that will maximize visibility (many argue that having TrackIR is an advantage too). All of that convenes an advantage, although there is no guarantee at all that it will translate into actual success. The same can be said for these mods. They may give a small advantage, but I think it is dubious whether they will provide a significant one.

The field mods idea is great. I love the freedom of not having a set price every month and being able to see cool add-ons for my financial contribution. I am Universally pleased with the leadership of Jason Willias and the creative genius of the ROF team.

I am not too worried about the new sights changing gunnery issues. We have always had guys using snap views and snap views help maintain the ideal sight picture, so in a way,there have always been guys able to gain an edge over the trackir crowd; assuming that the trakir guys are not using snap views, because some of them do. I am far more concerned about the representation of the Albies. I dig that the Abies might get their due and at sea level, have a top speed of around 116 mph, (possibly, if they are checking the same figures I am)

What I am "sim concerned about," is how fast the Albies will go at altitude and their handling characteristics; above 10, 000 feet. If their speed falls off, at altitude, by the same percentage of the historical SE5a, (and the SE5a was actually famous, in part for retaining maneuverability and significant speed, at altitude....as in the SE5a could go between 120 mph and 123 mph at 15, 000 feet, according to the Vintage Aviator) the Alby should barely be over 101 mph at 15, 000 feet, but I wonder how fast the bugger will go at 10,000 feet or 15, 000 feet?

It would be nice if they would add the side swinging, that made the Alby a poor gunnery platform and make the FM more challenging. The Alby is not, "better overall," than Entante planes, in game, like the SE5a, in most respects, but it is very easy in handling and forgiving in a stall, allowing it to hang on the prop and such. I keep hearing that the DVII is crap and broken and much of this criticism comes from comparisons with the Alby models and the Pfalz. I argue that the DVII is fine, but that the FM of the Albies and Pfalz planes make these planes better gun platforms and easier to fly, than they should be.

The merrits of the DVII would be obvious, if the other Central planes were as challenging, as their historical counterparts. The Pfalz was generally despised by Central pilots and I highly doubt it was a good plane to use in a turn fight with a Camel. Albies were not famous for being as easy to fly as DVIIs, they were not renouned for hanging on their props and they were not considered the equal of a SPAD 13 or SE5a, as a stable gun platform. They were, according to Alby aces and Entante pilots, very challenging gun platforms, not at all light on the controls. The DVII would be far more appreciated, if this was reflected in the FMs of the Albies and Pfalz machines.

Yea i think some thing should be as a standart for some planes - likes Aldis in SE5a or compass in Nieuports not for aditional field mods.

I dunno what prizes would be for field mods not in pre order? It would be higher then now? I think it could be little too high.

I'm not really concerned about the price; I'm concerned about the principle. I'd be delighted with this system if it were for purchasing solely aesthetic things rather than things which improve one's success. Heck, I'd rather see a pay-to-paint-your-bird system than a pay-to-get-an-actual-gunsight system. I don't object to paying for modifications; I only object to those purchased modifications being of the kind which improve one's success. See my previous point about frustrated newbies.



The Fokker D.VIIF is the only "necessary" aircraft which doesn't come with I.C.E. All of the other necessary fighters are included with I.C.E. That's why I've been (mentally) complaining about the D.VIIF since day one. It was the first step onto a manufactured "pay to win" system.

When most people first buy the sim, they're trying it out. They don't buy extra aircraft until they're sure that they'll be playing it for a long time. So they try it out with the aircraft they already have. And if they get their tails handed to them by the Fokker D.VIIF, because they can only fly the Fokker D.VII, it doesn't leave a good impression on them. They aren't inclined to stay with the sim and buy all the aircraft.

Of course, I may be overstating this, in my effort to make the point, but you see the problem I'm talking about?



Yeah, but as I said this is unavoidable. It's simply impossible to sell good hardware for very cheap, and good hardware is, by the laws of physics, a necessity for being successful in a sim. There's nothing that can be done about that, and that's a reality that simmers have been dealing with for decades, in some form or another.

But this field mods thing is different; this is the deliberate creation of a situation that exacerbates the natural problem. Again, I understand why it's being done, and sympathize, but I'm just having a hard time accepting that this is the best choice.



It depends. Some people won't gain any significant advantage from the field mods, but others will. For example, TrackIR users will benefit enormously from the new gunsights. People with low experience in the Fokker Dr.I will benefit quite a bit from the slip indicator. And people who specialize in a single aircraft will benefit from the addition of airspeed indicators.

So, for the record, I don't think that the aircraft are overpriced (far from it), nor am I complaining about the field mods being overpriced; I'm only leery of the system of paying real money to access a feature which will result in increased success.

Actually, no I am not following you -- sorry! I don't understand what you mean by "necessary" aircraft, for one thing. I can fly ICE online with just the default aircraft, but (especially if I am a newbie) I will likely get hammered by others flying the Camel and DR.1, despite that the SPAD, for example, is good enough to stay out of trouble. Also, different folks fly with different styles and some may never care for the style of flying needed by the SPAD.

Also, I don't quite follow your reasoning on how new players might react when first encountering a D.VIIF. I would hope anyone diving into this game would see that it has this system for adding new aircraft and would expect to expand their fleet in time. I don't know what else 777 should do with the D.VIIF except make it available to us, since it was an actual variant that flew in WW1. You mentioned mentally complaining about that aircraft, but I didn't understand why and don't see what you would have preferred be done.


Yeah, I get that you object on principles. I am just trying to determine how principled you really are here. :-)

You accept (because it is unavoidable) that hardware differences create an uneven playing field. I am not sure yet how your principles on this subject apply to 777's system of releasing aircraft for sale. Some aircraft are uber, clownwagons, blah blah and generate enormous discussions about how over-capable they are. Yet some will own them and some will not. To me, that is success for sale as well. In degree, I see the mods as having much less impact.

I agree with you that some mods will have more benefits than others, btw. You are right about the Aldis and TrackIR. OTOH, those flying with fixed snap views locked onto the gunsights already have an advantage. And, yeah, anyone gets that out of the box. But, in this case, the Aldis actually is of less benefit if you are not a TrackIR user. And if you are, it really just helps re-level the field a bit. Of all the mods, I think the airspeed indicators might have the most impact. The slip indicator can be helpful too, of course, but I suspect that the vast majority don't use the ones they already have (you being an exception, however).

Never mind the DVIIF, I'm surprised (and pleased) the Camel and DR1 were added to the ICE pack.

From a pure money point of view keeping the 2 iconic WW1 scouts as payware DLC would surely have raised the most cash. Instead 777 provide them as flyable with the base package, along with all the other well known 1918 scouts, that's hardly money grabbing. You really don't need to purchase any of the DLC to enjoy ROF and with practice be competetive online.

Oops! I was mistaken in thinking the Camel and Dr.1 were not included in ICE! That leaves as the only really game-changing add-ons the D.VIIf and the Pup.

First off, I'm obviously NOT referring to everyone in this or other similar posts.

Reading the posts that are along this line I find that there are a bunch of cheap xxxtards that want a whole bunch of stuff for a VERY minimal investment-in other words, free. I'm curious, do some of you guys WORK for a living?

What the hell is it that you guys don't get? If the developers don't get any more money they are going to move on to a new project. Is there something wrong with wanting to feed ones family? If we don't have reasons to pay for things-guess what-ROF development goes away. Do any of you think that someone else is going to put the time and effort into a WWI sim like the ROF guys did? I'm confident the answer is a big No "F"ing way....

If you don't want ROF to continue to mature-don't buy anything. I mean hell, I love to work on finished projects that won't generate another dime in my pocket-I don't have anything else to do...

And what are they gonna do???? Go to a new project that will allow them to support their families. Geez. How many of you jackholes work for NOTHING? Get a friggin' life and when YOU create an awesome WWI sim, send us a postcard. I'm guessing it'll suck bigtime but it'll be OK if you keep updating it for free-FOREVER.

The model of post-release, payware add-ons is the way to go in computar gaming atm. The only difference between 777 and EA, Sega, etc. is that 777 is doing everything themselves, as opposed to pushing them through Steam or some such.

I will agree that the standard prices are a bit steep, but between the bundles, the periodic sales, and the fact that you only have to buy what you really want, I don't see it being any worse than Total War, Civilization, etc.

In the case of the field mods, again, I'd agree they are slightly overpriced, but on the other hand, the vast majority of them most of us would probably never miss (unless you happen to be that one person who feels their continued online failures are due the lack of a thermometer or a reading light on all your planes). Buying a modkit or two to put gunsights on the few fighters you actually like to fly will probably not break most people's bank.

I tend to agree with this as it isnt so much a field mod as part of the production airplane, not that it worries me too much, I tend to wait for the holiday sales then snap up whatever I dont already have.

And suppose you'd got just the Aldis for the SE5 instead of all field mods for TWO AIRCRAFT?!?

=MFC=Gunloon

+1