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#3287389 - 05/05/11 05:00 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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Flybert Offline
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Not to give many details, however I had many email communications with Oleg in 2009 proposing a project, he's a very interesting man with interesting perspectives and good business sense,

My impression was that he did not want to involve UBISoft in future projects, and certainly not in the project I was negotiating with him and Maddox Games (as publisher) .. this is why he was *done* with the IL-2 series .. because of UBISoft (or perhaps the big publisher crap in general)

Remember what is now "Cliffs of Dover", was to be "Storm Of War" (game engine) "Battle of Britain"

There was no mention of the publisher months ago .. and there was no mention of it having the IL-2 name attached ..

So what I think happened, is Oleg had to release the sim in a certain time frame or go broke. Final programming, artwork and mostly advertising and distribution costs to ensure 100,000s of units sell quickly is VERY expensive .. if I told you the amazing number of units the IL-2 series sold (per Oleg), you would not believe it. Knowing the business, Oleg and his company got a relatively small percentage of the money .. We can all imagine that CoD is not as smooth and finished as Oleg would have liked it to be.

Perhaps the only reasonable hope of a profit was to use the IL-2 name, which UBISoft has rights in, and the only way to ensure sales in potentially profitable numbers was to have a big publisher like UBISoft distribute .. a necessary evil of sorts ..

The gaming, sim and flight sim business is full of stories of highly creative people leaving over the crap involved dealing with publishers and the money they wield, which makes them the *boss*

Damon Slye leaving Dynamix in 1994 comes to mind, after being the creative force behind Red Baron, the most successful computer game of 1991-1992

Oleg does not seem to be leaving the sim scene completely as Damon left the game scene for many years .. let's hope he just needs a break .. the Summer doing underwater photography which he loves .. at least Oleg is smart enough to own the code 1C wrote and it can be used for other simulation projects

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3287441 - 05/05/11 07:32 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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ricass Offline
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the real big hit for sierra/dynamix was in 1996 when they sold the whole company to CUC then it became a real nightmare and everybody left the place, but don't expect the narrow minded "i want my $40 back" generation to acknowledge those old stories
lots of spoiled brats just deserve fast food gaming style
piracy is also a big issue, the crytek guys learned it the hard way, now they are focusing on consoles, (so buy your games, trolls ^^), i've seen a majority of US flags while i was seeding the beta patch and i doubt these copies were all coming from justflight.
hopefully one day, 1c and others will directly deal with steam or the customer, 777 studio for instance has managed to keep the upper hand, regarding CoD it's too late, big projects are still enslaved

#3287458 - 05/05/11 08:36 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
Joined: May 2003
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daliborsky Offline
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Ljubljana, Slovenia
there is more to it you can imagine. The Youtube posts are indeed from Oleg and he is aparently not only angry at UBI but at his own publisher as well (1C). Judging from the posts on banana forum, there has been a change of hands some time ago. And I strongly belive, that COD is last in series we have seen from 1C and Oleg Maddox. COD doesn't look like something Oleg Maddox would put together, it is too incoherent, there are just too many grey areas, too many things are just wrong. To start with AI and flight model. It is nice to see the steam locomotive with all the moving parts, but this is not MS Train simulator...to much ephesasis went into completely irrelevant things, mostly those, which take a lot of working days to complete (buildings, towns....) but those essential (ai, flight model, physics, fluidity) were put behind, or some kind of "placeholders" were installed instead. It would make sense to have much smaller map, max 4 flyable airplanes and polished sim, with possibility of adding new objects and maps later on, as money comes in. Now ai controlled airplanes are doing impossible manouvers, and people still admire the graphics part of the sim....
I'm realy sorry, since Oleg is a very good man and very compenent sim developer, but it seems he was stabbed from two sides - within and outside company.


Nobody is perfect. I'm nobody, therefore I'm perfect
#3287468 - 05/05/11 09:30 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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DocW Offline
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I am surprised that this is treated as braking news. I thought it was common knowledge that Mr. Maddox left the COD Team some time ago and I would reckon that the effect of him staying in or leaving game business on COD development would be marginal anyway? Too naive ?

Oh, and I like to support the pretty obvious interpretation of the translation that he is complaining about the publishers and business partners, not the sim crowd (constructive they may have been or not).
Besides, I honestly do not believe that he takes the time to read through the numerous boards referring to his creations, not even through the 1c board. He may skim it once in a while, but all he needs are general trends to be reported, possible bugs and such. That is a job for the Mods.

And for the rest, that's speculation. At least it would appear be psychologically plausible to me. IL2 is the work of his life, it is for sure more than just another project, and seeing this work mistreated or torn away by contractors (as e.g. a premature release would have been) is more most people could easily cope with - especially under the stress of development work.

michael.

#3287471 - 05/05/11 09:36 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
Joined: Jan 2011
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falstaff Offline
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Freycinet said:

Quote:
I agree that realistic combat sim development is mainly driven by pure enthusiasm of the developers.


No. It is driven by a variety of things, including the need for people to work and earn a living, and the profit motive, as well as enthusiasm (of course). It may be a niche field, but even niche fields are not removed from reality (we hope).

Quote:
How easy do you think it is to stay enthusiastic in the face of constant relentless unfair criticism?


I do not know of a job on this earth that removes the worker from all possibility of criticism. Do you?

Unless you mean Donald Trump taking his hair for a walk.

Quote:
I totally understand that Oleg M decides to go other, more rewarding ways. I am just sad about what that means for WWII combat simming. And for what it probably means for all those great follow-up titles we were dreaming about once, The Med, Korea, etc, etc...


It means facing a reality that was evident some time ago.

No-one has suggested the possibility that Oleg bit off more than he (and his team) could chew, they he/were out of their depth on a much larger project. Perhaps there was misplaced confidence and they came unstuck.

Ben

#3287649 - 05/05/11 03:04 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
nibbio Offline
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Italy
Best of luck to Oleg M in all his future endeavors. Way back in 2000 he "borrowed" many of our ideas (http://web.tiscalinet.it/jobim/cfs2/) for graphics effects and put them to very good use, and I'm grateful to him for what he did for the community.
Who knows, maybe now he will even find some time to learn English biggrin

Ciao,
nibbio

#3287684 - 05/05/11 03:39 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Boilerplate*]  
Joined: Jun 2002
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SkullBiscuit Offline
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USA
Originally Posted By: Boilerplate*
Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
Watch lights fade from every room.
Bedsitter people look back and lament,
Another day's useless energy spent.
darkcloud


Ah c'mon guys... you must be having a bout with low 't' or something... duck


Indeed.....too much "T" here.....can there be such a thing? nope

Love the Moodies quote.....hmmmm...you must be over 40 wave


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#3287856 - 05/05/11 06:38 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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nats Offline
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Its sad when real world business greed interferes with true creative work.

These forums don't help either - they give everyone a say, and it must be bloody depressing to have to read it. If I was qame developer I wouldn't read forums.


"It's life, Jim, but not as we know it!"

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#3287904 - 05/05/11 07:54 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Boilerplate*]  
Joined: Mar 2011
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clayman Offline
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Etiwanda, California
Originally Posted By: Boilerplate*
Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
Watch lights fade from every room.
Bedsitter people look back and lament,
Another day's useless energy spent.
darkcloud


Ah c'mon guys... you must be having a bout with low 't' or something... duck


Wow .... Days of Future Past.


"Damn the DRM, full Steam ahead!" Guido Farraducci
#3287947 - 05/05/11 08:55 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Allen Offline
Hotshot
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As a retired Project Manager (in a creative field), I agree with some of the foregoing comments.

You definitely get a LOT more creativity out of a team that's "inspired", that feels "appreciated". Its far more than "just a living" on the best creative teams. In real life, creative productivity (what you get for what you pay) can double or triple -- if the team is well led and inspired.

The Project Manager has to create the environment and hire folks who "can be inspired". As noted by some above, many/most "old" folks are too jaded to be inspired. That means a relatively young team -- have to get them before they are spoiled.

But, time is also a factor. Can't expect a typical team member to "work hard" for more than 2 or 3 years. After that, it gets old. So, the Project has to be scheduled accordingly.

All in all, the Project Manager's job is tough -- even if one is supported by the customer and upper management. Often, that support is not forthcoming. Thus, most Project Managers "give up" (in effect) and make their job as easy as possible and the customer gets "what they deserve for not being a good partner". I retired "early" -- before that happened to me (but, it would have happened eventually) smile

Apparently, Oleg tried and events/relationships messed things up. He retired early too (but maybe not early enough). Too bad for him and all of us.


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#3287966 - 05/05/11 09:30 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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Mysticpuma2003 Offline
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Would be interesting if he took his knowledge to Gaijin and developed their forth-coming Wings of Prey 2, that would be a kick in the teeth for ubi!


[img]http://i41.tinypic.com/2yjr679.png[/img]
#3288210 - 05/06/11 06:00 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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FlyingMonkey Offline
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Down under in Adelaide
Well, it would a kick in Luthier's teeth too, less nice really. As far as I understood, Oleg had issues with Ubi/1C, but he never gave any sign that he was upset with Luthier. Oleg also said he would keep an interest in simulation although with changes in focus, which let people wondering whether he would move to ground sim, to civilian sim etc but that didn't suggest he would do anything like WoP2 - besides, given the light sim focus of WoP, I fail to see how it could match Oleg's interest for strong realism.

#3288225 - 05/06/11 07:04 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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slickwing Offline
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Two weeks ,for sure.


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#3288230 - 05/06/11 07:24 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Allen]  
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Freycinet Offline
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Originally Posted By: Allen
As a retired Project Manager (in a creative field), I agree with some of the foregoing comments.

You definitely get a LOT more creativity out of a team that's "inspired", that feels "appreciated".


That is why the atmosphere in this forum is so poisonous, with the gangbanging haters and whiners constantly attacking all and anything they cast their eyes upon. Truly sad to listen to them, because you can just hear - in how they treat the developers - that they themselves have never done anything inspiring. If you are of a creative mind you know not to deluge the effort of others in exaggerated hate and moaning. Those negative fellows have no idea of what "constructive criticism" means. They are just out to destroy. And the only thing it shows is that they've never themselves been part of a creative project. There is zero respect for a "fellow artist" because they don't have a clue about what such a person is.


My Il-2 CoD movie web site: www.flightsimvids.com
#3288247 - 05/06/11 08:02 AM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Freycinet]  
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commorange Offline
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popcorn

Last edited by commorange; 05/06/11 08:03 AM.

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#3288346 - 05/06/11 12:59 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: HogDriver]  
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nils Offline
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Originally Posted By: HogDriver
God it must suck to spends years of your life creating something for an ungrateful, whiny community... (gamers in general)


.. have you got any specific forum in mind?? I can't think of anyone on this site..

#3288363 - 05/06/11 01:17 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Freycinet]  
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Lieuwe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Freycinet
Originally Posted By: Allen
As a retired Project Manager (in a creative field), I agree with some of the foregoing comments.

You definitely get a LOT more creativity out of a team that's "inspired", that feels "appreciated".


That is why the atmosphere in this forum is so poisonous, with the gangbanging haters and whiners constantly attacking all and anything they cast their eyes upon. Truly sad to listen to them, because you can just hear - in how they treat the developers - that they themselves have never done anything inspiring. If you are of a creative mind you know not to deluge the effort of others in exaggerated hate and moaning. Those negative fellows have no idea of what "constructive criticism" means. They are just out to destroy. And the only thing it shows is that they've never themselves been part of a creative project. There is zero respect for a "fellow artist" because they don't have a clue about what such a person is.

Yes I am so uncreative it hurts, people were pretty excited about this project during its development from the moment it was announced. That positivisme didn't really feed the team either by the looks of it.

#3288367 - 05/06/11 01:20 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
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sascha Offline
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There's a difference between "constant whining" and "pointing out obvious weaknesses/shortcomings".

So far, I've seen very little of the former and a lot of the latter on here. And rightly so (IMO) with a product as troubled and unfinished as CoD.


And when you take a peek at other forums/sites, you'll find there's not much praise for the product either. Just check the user-ratings on amazon for starters.

amazon.de:
5 stars: (6)
4 stars: (7)
3 stars: (2)
2 stars: 6)
1 stars: (28)

overall: 2.1 stars.

Metacritic (users): 4 positive, 1 neutral, 8 negative.

Gamespot: 40%

Gamestar.de: 63%

etc, etc.




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#3288650 - 05/06/11 07:19 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: sascha]  
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Beelzebub Offline
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Flanders
9lives 38/100

The fallen red idol...


----------------------------------------------------------
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#3288694 - 05/06/11 08:21 PM Re: Oleg is leaving game development [Re: Sim]  
Joined: Mar 2001
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bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
Do you guys really think you need to make references to how poorly this sim is being rated, do you really??? We bloody know, but lets keep hitting ourselves over the head with it, Cripes, do you guys want to be called prophets or what, Beelzebub? Do you?

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