The sims I fly can be seen in my sig, but Rise of Flight is 90% of my sim time no doubt about it. COD in the long run will take more of my attention than DCS as well (assuming all goes well with patches).

From this perspective, I'm loving the Warthog so if you hear that it's for Jets and it's not for Prop Sims - this is not true in my opinion. It's great for Prop Sims except COD flyers may want more Rotaries.

After some time with the stick I've tidied up the review on my Squad's site: http://www.oceanicwing.com/Forum/Main/index.php?topic=384.0

Pasted here:

Software
Coming from CH Products, whose software is excellent I can say this about TARGET the warthog software:
* The GUI is absolutely #%&*$# (beta version). It cannot do half of what CH software can do. You have to define functions against the buttons themselves, yet after you name it etc you cant move them around, you dont have a template file, you cannot combine keys unless they are alt, ctrl, shift etc (unless you edit in notepad).
* The Script editor, is absolutely excellent - it can do more than any other joystick software. Having said that, the script is actually in "C" programming language. I've done a few years of C++ in my past, so I was right at home. However - it did take a LONG time to program my stick. When people make some script profiles and distribute them, you can just modify them which will be much quicker. So far I have programmed A-10C, Blackshark, and ROF. I have yet to program FC2 and Strike Fighters 2 series.
* Further on the script editor, being a REAL programming language you can call external programs or other dll files that you write. For example I could push a button and have it run some code from the translations generator, or I could make it run some windows sounds or music. The ability is good to have although I haven't thought of much I would want to do with it at the moment, KISS principle I like.

Throttle
* The dual throttles are excellent, there is a locking mechanism that lets you lock them together for fighters and its quite easy to lock/unlock when you take up an HP or Gotha bomber etc. The multi engined bombers I fly the whole flight with them unlocked. I can turn the Handley Page on a dime by throttling back the inside engine, and then reversing both throttles to help roll out of the dive quicker. Taxiing is now a cinch as well as landings with the dual throttle. Bombers which I wasn't into as much before, are now a joy to fly.
* The range of movement of the throttles is massive, if you want precision formation and aerobatic flying then this is the throttle you want. The afterburner detent can be removed and you can then have massive throttle precision. I myself however find it a bit too far for things like ROF and dogfighting. Preferring to fly Boom n Zoom style I'm often throttling up and down, so I set the curve to go to 100% just before the afterburner detent, this range is more than enough, and is still longer than the CH range. Also I think flying with full throttle forward past the detent is too far forward to be comfortable. I would say it's more for cockpits who are able to place the throttle beside them. With it on my desk, up to the detent only is the max I want.
* The afterburner detent itself can be removed, but I didn't need to with my throttle curve.
* The afterburner detent cannot be overcome unless you hold the throttle base down when you lift it over the detent, otherwise the throttle can lift off the desk and shift. This is another reason I think the afterburner range is only for dedicated cockpits as you would need to screw it down.
* Using the dual-throttle works well in the HP during taxi, also very useful in taxi for the A-10C but also for flying in the A-10C when I damage my plane. Often I smack my tail and break part of the stabilizer after some ground hugging flying and I can adjust one engine plus some rudder and some trim to get it back in place.

Slider/Rotary
* The slider is nice and smooth, and it does have a center detent so you know when you're there without looking down. I find this PERFECT for ROF, as the center position is the correct radiator setting for most aircraft above 3000feet. I mostly even use it from take off as the temps start at around 50, and climb to 80 by the time you hit 3000 which is perfect. SE5a set this to centre and it's good for most of the flight until 7000feet or diving.
* Slider is not ON the throttle, some don't like this who are used to the X52. I however LIKE this because my slider on the CH throttle mod I had bumped it alot which really messed up some of my flights. No problem here I just quickly reach down and the detent lets me know where it's at.
* There is only one slider, if you need more you need to use the second throttle, or do something with the analog mini-stick. But with several 3 position switches I think the lack of rotaries can be overcome by using these forward/back three position switches with the thumb as long as there is a visual indication on screen showing your setting (which ROF has with Ctrl I or in-cockpit levers and RPM gauges for mixture)
* I use the thumb mic switch up and down for zoom, which works well.
* I use the speed brake 3 position switch for mixture and altitude throttle. Tapping it moves the mixture and after using rotaries I find this switch better because I can get an idea in memory of how much mixture to use, 4 taps at take off etc. For the altitude throttle, I can lock the switch in position in one direction so this is ideal if I want to turn my alt throttle quickly.
* Sims with trim - since I want to fly everything with the mappings matching the warthog as much as possible (makes commiting to memory automatic), I am using the hat switch for vertical and horizontal trim just like the real A-10. A few taps here or there works well.

Mini-stick
* It's not a full mini-stick like the CH, it's a small stick most of which is obscured.
* In a-10c it's very accurate, in blackshark it's not. But I also had problems with blackshark with CH ministick, so it could be blackshark related.
* Pushing down on it has a button, I use this for my gunsight view in planes where I dont sit behind it (like the dolphin I sit with my head sticking out the top, or the DFW to get around the engine block to the gunsight
* I don't use the mini-stick in ROF at all but I suppose you could use it for panning your view or something.

Other throttle buttons
* There are many, many, and I've found some good uses and have a great final mapping now. Some have 3 positions, some have 2, and some have a momentary position and two stable positions.
* Lifting throttles out of idle is an immersive way to start the engines, and it triggers a button you can assign to startups or anything. Same with shutdown. UPDATE: I now only do the for A-10C, as there are some airstarts in ROF, plus the position of your throttle is not considered before starting. So I now use the left and right "IGN" switches to power up left and right engines.

STICK
* HALL sensors, there is no spiking and inputs are precise.
* The dual-stage trigger is cool for A-10, turning on PAC first which will stabilise the flight path on the gunsight. But if not for PAC, the aiming would be innaccurate as the second stage you have to pull so far back it can throw off your aim. As a result, in ROF I only use the first stage trigger.
* The stick movement is stiffer than CH, but not hard it is very smooth. Think of pushing a lever that has it's base well greased with thick grease, and that lever has an equal force and steady movement in all directions. This is what it feels like, after the stick is pushed to position (like holding forward for nose-up planes like the Dr1), it's actually very easy to hold it there. Doing this with CH was a bit more difficult as holding halfway up the Y axis with no resistant often caused me some pitch oscillations with the CH, not good for energy retention..
* The result of this smooth movement resistance of the stick is smoother flying, and more energy gaining flying I think
* It may have also improved my aim but it's hard to tell as I also increased my convergence at the same time to experiment.
* A downside is pulling the trigger caused a shift in my aim due to the heavy trigger, but I now countered that by squeezing and not pulling. The old CH trigger was clicked not pulled so I wasn't used to a real actuating trigger. Now I squeeze it AND the stick, I think I use two fingers too to keep it smooth.
* A large number of buttons, it has an additional two more buttons over the CH fighterstick
* There is a wheel brake style paddle at the bottom, very easy and quick to use. I use it as my guns "reload lever" and crank it to charge the guns. In DCS I use it as a SHIFT button so I can program my throttle buttons to views as secondary controls.
* There IS a center detent as others have noticed, but coming from CH I don't find it a problem. Maybe it was mainly a problem for U2Nxt Cougar owners who did not have one. Personally when I look at my flying, it's rare to pass directly through center, usually pulling back or pushing forward is slightly next to center as we are maneuvering in all directions. If you're flying a sim with realistic flight models and gyro forces like ROF, you're pretty sure to be needing some aileron at most times anyway even if pulling back or pushing forward.
* The FEEL of the stick is awesome, I did mention the smooth movement already ? The metal feeling of the stick feels more solid and fun to fly with.
* Its starting to feel like a sin, but when I know I'm going to fly soon I start thinking of how nice it will be to hold that stick again and squeezing the paddle and pressing it's actuating trigger while raining hails of bullets down >:D

In summary;

PROS
* Excellent accurate and smooth stick, very suited for prop sims
* Precision resolves alot of "twitchy" elevator plane problems like Camel and DVIIf, although you still need practice in them of course
* Perfect stick for A-10C (obviously), and I love A-10C and DCS now with the improvements especially.
* Dual throttles
* Slider detent
* MANY buttons
* TARGET scripts
* Paddle switch

CONS
* Afterburner detent only suited to those who can both screw the throttle down AND have the throttle next to them so that full throttle forward is not uncomfortable to hold.
* Only one slider control
* Second stage trigger hard to aim with
* TARGET GUI

TY for the review TaipaN. Very balanced IMHO. I use the CH Fighterstick and Franken Potato at home (and when dueling for money), with the Warthog at work and get to use both setups on most days when there is some down time in the lab. I am very slightly weighted to the CH FS/FP/PP for prop sims and in jet sims, they are in a dead heat. Currently, Control Manager allows me to do some custom scripting for IL2 and FC 2, that makes it a bit easier to compete with the very top 1% of duelists, and I have not had a chance to delve into the full C scripting of TARGET. Still wish the stock Warthog and CH Pro Throttles included trim rotaries.

S! - WD

(btw, I offer $50 to any ROF, IL2 1946 or UP 2.01, LOMAC FC 2 flier who can defeat me in a co-altitude fair duel. Have not run across you in ROF online but would look forward to a good long fight. S!)

I don't mean to hijack a good review BUT You mean to say there are people that actually do flight sim duels for money? I know I suck hind tit to most people in Aces High but I might have to actually spend some time and energy in flying against real people instead of just putzing around to start taking peoples money.

Great review Taipan. I find myself loving this stick more than anything else that I have used. I don't worry about the rotaries or rather the lack thereof since there are so many buttons and switches that you can place some or most functions on that you might need. Thanks for the review.

I will keep it short Reschke, since I dont wish to hijack the review, but yes. I am probably the most well known for offering money to duelists but a few others have as well too. Cash rewards seem to bring out the best in people (and worst in illicit mods too,......LOOOOOOL) to perform, so I always get people's A game. I just enjoy really good duels between formidable opponents flying under realistic conditions.

S! - WD

Hi WD,

Thanks yes I tried to keep it balanced and I did really miss the CH software. The TARGET script can do more but it takes 4x as long to setup.

Why do you prefer the CH to the Warthog? I found it too jumpy on the Y axis to get good aim in ROF flying the pitch sensitive planes.

I'm interested in what sort of scripts you found helpful in prop sims? I never really played IL-2 multi much but I'm VERY into ROF multiplayer. Considering the lack of necessary buttons/controls in ROF, I've found it hard to make a use of any complex button scripts etc. Anything I could do that would help me do you think?

I've done a few duels with a chap called Josh Echo, him and Peter Zvan like to duel alot. I'd be keen for some duels with you, what sort of rules do you play for duels? Most fights in ROF are not same plane vs same plane, it's usually axis vs allied.. so often duels we take turns fighting and then swap planes. This way we can practice tactics from both sides.

For example the SE5a vs Pfalz D3a is a good BnZ vs TnB fight and vice versa.

The best for duels I think are the "average" planes rather than the top planes, as you get a good fight. The worst for practicing ACMs in duels are Sopwith Camel and Dr1, because they turn practically on the spot, they usually end in a collision or are decided by the fuel level i.e who turns tightest.

What's your ROF pilot's name I haven't seen you?

Cheers

The main difference TaipaN is that the Franken Potato allows me to have rotaries for trim. Unfortunately, I cannot persuade CH to redo their HOTAS line and include them as stock and the Warthog, in one of its few omissions, lacks them as well. I have never really felt that pitch was problematic for me in ROF. I dont use scripting much in ROF but I do in IL2 and LOMAC FC2. I have (and am still) fooling with simple scripts to offset some of the tendency for me to pull to severe at the end of the travel limits in ROF, but that is about it. With IL2 and LOMAC, the scripting is more for special moves for high level duels and automation of continuously used features. If you decide to keep your CH stuff, I can send you my ROF scripts. I fly all flight sims mainly under the WD moniker. I used to fairly often use other names simply to avoid the 3 on 1 situations I would often get in IL2. Never really used other names in ROF or LOMAC.

S! - WD

Ahh trim yep. ROF doesn't really have TRIM so I'm ok there. For the jet sims I use the hat switch for trim, but in general I don't trim much at all I just never take my hand off the stick.

That will have to change I suppose once I get into cliffs of dover, I hear the WW2 planes NEED trim to get the best performance out of them. But at the moment COD is more of a chore than enjoyable due to it's state but that's another discussion of which there are many!

Do you use the dual-stage trigger on the warthog for anything? I find the second stage is so hard to press that it moves the stick and throws off my aim, so I just set both guns to first stage trigger.

If/When I do get into COD, I have thought about the idea of getting the Saitek 3-way throttle quadrant. Having only 3 levers is perfect and it wouldn't take up too much room.



But to be honest - COD would have to become my main sim for that. Because in ROF I only need one rotary (radiator), and in DCS A-10C I use no rotaries. FC2 I've stopped playing but I may go back to it.
I love the Russian birds, it's a challenge to beat the F-15 but I like flying sneaky

Very nice review Taipan, I too found it to be even handed and objective.

I have to agree with your assesment of the number of rotories. For this price and the amount of time spent engineering it, I am very surprised that it does not have the full 8 axis that DX allows. Seven is great (ministick is actually an X and Y axis) but one more would really have helped.

I added a Leobodnar board to my setup so I could have six additional axis for trims, radiator, mixture and prop pitch (the last for IL-2)

Nice review. I'm using the Warthog since november now and almost exclusively for ROF.

I can highly recommend it.


I set "reload" to the second stage and to the paddle switch. So when i'm shooting at someone and one gun jams, i press harder, so that the gun unjams, while the other keeps shooting.

Other than that, i've not found a good use for it either (neither in ROF, nor in CloD).

I use the left throttle lever for mixture or radiator (if the plane has no mixture control, so mostly on Central planes). I use the slider for mixture on planes with radiator control.

I can change this on the fly, by flipping the APU switch (i've created a script for that). So if i fly an Albatros (for example) and then switch to a Camel, i just switch the two levers.

I also use the autopilot switch for adjusting the pitch and roll axis. For the tail-heavy planes (DR.I, SE5a), i flip the switch up and then have a preset pitch curve. For the planes with very sensitive elevator, i flip the switch down and then have another different curve setting.

This is very handy.

Wow, excellent use of the second stage Matt. Some of you guys may have seen this guide I made about 2 years back:

http://www.mediafire.com/?nhqk4zlqzdw

It includes key maps for the major HOTAS choices except I have not had a chance to update with the X-65 and Warthog, and it is only for IL2. Eventually, would like to upgrade it to include all major commercial units and expand it to ROF, LOMAC FC 2 and Falcon AF. Once I get my maps for ROF done Matt, I will use your suggestion.

S! - WD

That trigger idea is very useful I might try that!

I've found the mixture to be good on the boat switch, as I've gotten so used to it now I can set my mixture just by the number of taps I give it. Also the new Ctrl+i mixture onscreen indicator helps.

So I'm just using the slider for radiator.

One script I was thinking of, was to find a way to have 3 fields of view like IL-2 has. I would put Mic-Up to zoomed, Mic-Push to base-FOV, and Mic-Down to zoomed out. I think in ROF the only way to do it would be if we script a fake axis for those 3 buttons and assign that axis. Because there is no FOV command except zoom in and out but an axis is allowed.

I just have to get the time to script it, however I still haven't made profiles for COD or FC2 yet.

Back to the trigger - do you guys fire cannon and MG on the same trigger press in IL-2? Or prefer MG first then cannon on another button?

You are Jay Hall! That's why I asked if you had another name as I've seen you somewhere before maybe CH-Hangar. I think you did a CH vs Logitech review and you mentioned $5 duels.

I liked your excellent IL-2 combat guide however I never got into PvP air combat until I got ROF.

FYI attached is my ROF script if you want a starting point: ROF TARGET Script

I use the trigger for MGs and the weapon release button for cannons. I wouldn't say that that offers an advantage though. Unless you want to use the MGs to "harass" the enemy a bit and don't expect to hit him with the cannons. I only use different buttons because it feels more "realistic" .

I'm used to the ROF type of "zoom". I would actually prefer it, if CloD would use a similar system.

I use the "castle" (i think that's its name) hat switch for zoom in and out in ROF and FoV change in CloD. The trim hat for flares (all 4 different colors) or trim in CloD. The other hat switch to the left for gunsight view and for a snapview of important instruments (say speed gauge on T&B planes, rev gauge on the SE5a etc.). The CMS switch works as my blip switch now. I don't like that though. Paddle switch, like i said for "normal" reload in ROF and for wheel brakes in CloD. Pinky button for TS3, that button on the right side of the stick for Freetrack centering. Weapon release for bombs in ROF and cannons in CloD.

That's pretty much it for the stick. Of course i've mapped a few controls to the throttle aswell, but i didn't get used to it yet.

I've heard of people "aiming" with the MGs and when they see a hit then they open with cannons.
I think i'd rather have both on the one trigger, and be ready to hit both only when I'm sure of a shot.

The ROF zoom I'm used to as well, although I'm liking the COD one now too. Maybe I'll just start using a "zoom reset" by pushing the mic switch and that will be a good compromise.

Anything I need to use same time as guns I won't put on the stick as it throws off my aim. I.e:
* Blip is the red throttle button
* Zoom is mic switch up/down
* Dolphin snapview is slew-push

Exception being reload because the paddle is such a cool way to reload I love using it.

I use the CMS 4 way for flares, as it's the same in A-10. Generally I try and use the same where possible across all sims, so I never need to print a guide it's all in memory even if I'm away from a sim for months.