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#3254146 - 03/31/11 09:03 PM Preferred FM/DM for Red Baron 3D  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Hello Gentlemen and fellow RB3D Simmers,

While I've gotten RB3D to run successfully in WINE on Snow Leopard (Apple/Macintosh), I'd like some input on preferred FM/DM options from specialists in the area such as Greybeard, etc.

I particularly find Greybeard's FMs excellent for my stock installation of Red Baron, and for my HASP and WFP (and eastern front) mods too; however, having recently discovered the "ReDux" (ver. 1.6; gold) FM/DM - I must admit that I've learned to enjoy it as well.

A few quick questions for the specialists:

(1) Is the "ReDux" patch strictly for SP (like Greybeard's FMs), or is it MMP friendly as well?

(2) Should the "WvW MMP" patch, available on the Flybert website, be used for MMP instead of the "ReDux" gold patch, or does "ReDux" cover MMP too (as indicated in question 1)?

(3) Is the "ReDux" gold patch more realistic (in terms of physics, flight behavior, damage modelling, etc.) than Greybeard's magnificent FMs and the Zintack DMs - or is this a matter of taste? (Please advise, since I'd prefer to choose the "best of" FM/DM patch and stick with it.)

Many thanks in advance!,
VonSmokehausen

Last edited by VonSmokehausen; 04/04/11 11:36 PM.
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#3257262 - 04/02/11 07:54 PM Re: Preferred FM/DM for Red Baron 3D [Re: VonS]  
Joined: Apr 2006
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Flybert Offline
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Flybert  Offline
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Redux 1.6 and WvW 3.0 are identical flight models and damage models, and were designed only with MP in mind, as they are not a complete set for the 38 planes of SP

The only difference is that my install (WvW 3.0) puts the fmparam3.dat and acspecs3.dat in Multi folder rather than Data directly .. both put the #damage.dat files in Multi folder

Several have used them in SP .. HASP or FCJ .. this can be accomplished by putting the files in Simpatch or even Shellpat should work ( for only affecting SP game )

I find these flight models a bit too twitchy on some planes, particularly the Fokker D.VII, and find most of the planes break too easily from stress damage .. also some planes seem a bit underpowered .. some planes that could easily loop in real life can't loop at all with these flight models

the primary objective of WvW and ReDux was to eliminate *uber*, a condition / glitch in the Advanced Flight Model mode where some planes would gain performance when the wings were damaged by mg fire

while that was accomplished, and the gyroscopic precession is done better than prior RB3D AFM mods, there is still, IMO, a few realism and fun-factor issues that could be solved

#3257327 - 04/02/11 08:52 PM Re: Preferred FM/DM for Red Baron 3D [Re: VonS]  
Joined: Mar 2011
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VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
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Hi again All,

And thanks for the detailed info. Flybert - this clears things up considerably. I've got the ReDux files in the simpatch folder of a stock copy of RB3D. Noticed that it's slightly less twitchy in MMP than SP - probably because it was intended for MMP as you say.

More impressions after further testing of the ReDux patch in SP in RB3D on an Intel Mac: planes are more torquey/twitchy than in the Greybeard FM for sure.

The German planes: easiest to fly are the Alb. D.2, 3, and 5; the Alb. D.2 is particularly good against various Nieuport types, but has an abysmally poor climb rate; the D.5 is a better climber but has a tendency to slip into a spin on tighter turns; the Halberstadt is very entertaining and manageable, as are the Pfalz D.III and XII (the D.XII is particularly good against the Sopwith Snipe); the Pfalzes, although prone to some spinning, don't break that often; didn't test the Fokkers since I don't fly them anyway.

The Allied planes: easiest to fly, for me, are the Tripe and Nieuports (the Tripe doesn't break as easily as the Nieuports however and is my favorite of the Allied fighters after ReDux is applied); the Camel and Snipe are stronger than the Tripe but have a much greater tendency to spin than their counterparts in the Greybeard FM; didn't test the SE5a and SPADs since I don't fly them; also didn't test early fighters like the Bullet and DH2 but noticed generally that the monoplanes are also more prone to spinning than in the Greybeard FM.

Verdict: will most likely stick with the Greybeard FM for SP, and leave ReDux for MMP only.

Added note: will try to record a clip of ReDux in stock SP and will upload it to my YouTube channel in the next few days; after that will further test the old "Royce II" FM (still available on the HASP website) for stock RB3D (tried the Royce II FM just now and it doesn't look too bad; feels half-way between the Greybeard and ReDux FMs in terms of twitchiness).

Thanks!,
Von Smokehausen

#3260145 - 04/05/11 06:29 AM Re: Preferred FM/DM for Red Baron 3D [Re: VonS]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Hello again fellow RB3D Simmers,

Here's some more info. on the various FMs after further testing in Red Baron 3D on a Mac. As indicated in my previous post, the Royce II FM seems to be between the GB and ReDux FMs in terms of twitchiness (and also in terms of damage modelling - hits give more damage in Royce II than the Zintack DM used with the Greybeard FM, but less than the ReDux DM).

Of the aircraft, some further impressions:

Greybeard FM/DM

German planes: the Pfalz D.XII spins easily and also breaks sometimes; the Pfalz D.III is a much nicer ride and recovers more easily from spins; the Dr.I is very maneuverable and fairly enjoyable to fly, although challenging; the Albs. are strong and stable, fairly maneuverable, but can break if pushed.

Allied planes: the SPADs and SE5a are spin-prone and will break more quickly than Albs. and Nieuports; the Nieuports don't fall into spins easily, are stronger than the Albs. (oddly), and are fairly maneuverable; the Camel is even more maneuverable than the Nieuports but still enjoyable to fly, doesn't fall into spins easily, and is a stabler gun platform than the Dr.I (a comparable opponent).

ReDux 1.6 Gold FM/DM

German planes: the Dr.I is extremely twitchy, turns to the right passably but very poorly to the left, and also loses wings very easily; the easiest way to stay alive is to gain alt. and "peck" away at your victim below, while the victim tries to gain alt.

Allied planes: the Camel, SE5a, and SPADs all spin and lose wings very easily; the Snipe holds its wings longer but stalls frequently, often falling into a semi-controlled flat drop (not into a spin).

Royce II FM/DM

German planes: the Alb. D.5 has a wide turning radius, is sluggish on controls, and a poor climber (the D.2 is much better: didn't test the D.3); the Dr.I climbs poorly and dives poorly, but has decent aileron response; the Pfalz D.III is a decent climber but sluggish on controls, and needs some right rudder to fly straight (even though it's an inline, odd); the Pfalz D.XII is much more enjoyable, rarely spinning or stalling, and holding its own against a Nieuport 28 for example.

Allied planes: of the Sopwiths, the Camel is the best, nicer to fly than the Dr.I and a real Alb. killer in the Royce II FM (it's a good climber and doesn't spin as much as the Camel in ReDux); the Snipe stalls easily, often falling into a strange "see-saw" drop; the Tripe is better than the Snipe, not as good a gun platform as the Camel but very twitchy, maneuverable, and a good climber; the SE5a is spin-prone, the SPADs slightly less so; the Nieuport 24 is a stabler gun platform than the Camel even though it's just as maneuverable (it can be pushed much further than the 24 in ReDux, but not as much as the one in Greybeard); didn't test the other Nieuports.

Conclusion: for SP, pick the FM/DM that lets your favorite mount shine if you like the "fly now" mode, or one that seems the best compromise if you fly "campaign" mode; for MMP, ReDux Gold is a good option obviously, but if I have time I might try tinkering with the Royce II FM in MMP.

Salute!,
Von Smokehausen

Last edited by VonSmokehausen; 04/05/11 06:35 AM.

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