I hear the TacPac is coming out soon and I was just wondering what this will mean as far as F/A-18 simulation goes. I know FSX will not have the campaign and "depth" that a combat simulation such as Jane's has, but when looking at a mission --- ie air threats, ground threats, radar, etc --- how does VRS Superbug + TacPac compare to Jane's F/A-18? What does Jane's have that VRS doesn't and vice versa? Will VRS be a "decent" contender for the F/A-18 niche?

I am currently flying DCS A10 which doesn't have dynamic campaigns but is still fun having just one scenario and trying out different approaches and seeing which one works -- kina like a learning environment with a few variables constant. This is why I'm not really bothered about the dynamic campaign. However, I like my multiplayer goodies like buddy-lasing, sharing information, etc. Does VRS have this?

Interview with Varmint is most accurate source of TacPack information at the moment:

http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_461a.html

It looks like there will be buddy lasing, and simple object placement tool. Ground threats are already there. In next TacPack phases there will be AI (Basic, aggressor and target drone AI).

Mission editor is one of the planned features, but it won't make to initial TacPack release.

I think TacPack is very promising, because there are some chances to use FSX as a base for combat simulator.


On the other hand, there are hints that next DCS module will be F/A-18C.

Hmmm... yeah. I've read that article and I was wondering if I should get the Superbug and TacPac and get my afterburner fix... but I'm not really a fan of FSX. I tried FS9 before and just learned what I can about flying IFR and VFR and that was it.

How's the switchology in the Superbug though? Is it any good? Comparable to DCS BS/A10? What can the Superbug do at the moment? Drop bombs? Fire missiles?

At the moment, if I were just flying around in an F/A-18, I don't see the point in getting a Superbug, no matter how detailed (yeah but do they do what they're supposed to do?) the aircraft is. I wanna do things, not just go from A-to-B. I thought the TacPac might be the ticket, but I'm not too keen on plunking down my cash for an "expirement" in FSX modification.

I'd say if there is a plane comparable to DCS it's VRS SuperBug.

Superbug is focused on avionics, flying, systems and carrier ops, not combat - there are weapons systems modeled, you can drop bombs, and shoot missiles, but there is no enemy AI in the air to shoot you back.

It's a very good plane, but if you look for Jane's F/A-18 replacement then I'd wait and see what TacPack will be.

Are you saying that VRS Superbug is comparable to DCS as far as accuracy goes (or as far as they can make it accurate) and as far as graphical and technical detail goes --- the only exception is AI? If that's the case, that's awesome, since "AI" isn't really the VRS shortcoming but FSX...

However, yes, I am looking for a F/A-18 replacement and assuming TacPac will be what the devs say it is, why isn't it an F/A-18 replacement? Of course, barring the usual dynamic campaign blah blah.

There are few things classified about F/A-18E, but as far as I know SuperBug is as detailed as it can be. TacPack and later Pro version will even improve this product.

What I'm saying - right now it's a combat plane in civilian environment. You can shot AI, but it can't shoot you back. For me shooting at airliners is a bit pointless At the moment it's not a replacement for Jane's F/A-18, with TackPack it might be.

The best thing is, that TacPack will be multiplayer combatible

I know it's a civ sim and kudos to them for putting a combat aircraft in and actually trying to make it do combat stuff. I do get what you say about enemy aircraft AI, I don't think there will ever be a way to put combat AI in FSX, but I'd be very happy if I were wrong.

How about mud-moving though? Is there a way to bomb vehicles/buildings in Superbug? All I could figure out from TacPac is that persistent craters and being able to target simobjects...

Yes, it will be possible to bomb a vehicle, ship or building with TacPack. SAMs will be possible too. TacPack page says something about basic, aggressor target drone AI and wingmen in future releases.

It still doesn't have FLIR

Hmmm... I don't quite recall my Hornet days, but can a Hornet find targets WITHOUT FLIR? Um, like, even if FLIR isn't working, is there like a targeting pod/camera that can acquire and ID targets? Or are we limited to ground radar?

It was just ground radar and the FLIR.

Technically the FLIR lock up works in VRS, but theres no image. <_<

Yeah correct - FLIR technically works, but no image - it's beyond FSX core programming capability to create an IR image from it's environment - you will have to lock up the target with ground radar (which will be in tacpak). So I suppose it depends on the fidelity of the radar image (IRL the image is quite good quality resolution, not just some dots as in Janes).

Saying that - it's an amazing add-on - full real clickable cockpits, avionics, AA radar, amazing carrier models available for free etc, astounding graphics, and probably one of the best flight models i've flown. Definitely worth getting if your a JF18 fan. Everything works just like janes, so if you a vet on this game, you'll be in the cockpit and in the air in a minute. Took me about 10 mins to programme my X52 and I was HOTAS ready! The FLIR issue really is the only problem.

There is som talk on the vrs forums of adapting the game to the upcoming MS Flight, getting MS to code in IR capability. All we need is for TSH to do some work on constructing missions/dynamic environment add-on payware, and you have some real opportunities there. I think you could clear up in the combat sim market. Imagine going on a SEAD mission, but facing human piloted flankers (tacpak will eventually be released to third parties to make any plane combat ready). It would kind of make game specific combat sims redundant. People would simply model planes and mission/campaign packs for insertion into the game. Then you have the whole world to play with. License google earth to slip over the terrain model, and you have a photoreal, worldwide dynamic combat zone. Even non combat players could get into it, flying refueling tankers, awacs, supply planes etc. I'm getting carried away now haha!

Seems a no brainer to me, and I hope that some entrepreneurial folk in the software business grab this one and run with it, as I think they really could clean up. Sorry for rambling on - just glad to be positive about something after the disappointment of Cliffs of Dover

Hehe... while the possibilities are "there," I guess I can sit this one out. Thanks guys. I love Jane's F/A-18 a lot and don't want to "taint" the experience with something else.

If things pick up with TacPack, I'll be sure to get this but at this time, I guess it's better for me to just sit back.

No probs Ice - this is def a waiting game, and it might come to nothing. It's a classic market void waiting to be filled, but with no formula, and utterly dependant on completely separate entities coming together to create a new entity.

Thats why I used the word entrepreneur. Ths is a quick minded business opportunity call, not a flight sim fan call. And that is out of my league haha! I'll stick to being an architect!

Steve

While I bow to their achievement with the Superbug, and assuming TacPack works as advertised, that's great... but having a 3rd-party or community-controlled group make other aircraft flyable and mod their own missiles, I can see things turning south pretty quick. It's not fun having to flick so many switches to get an AIM 9 off the rail when some guy in some plane with "arcade settings" can point-and-shoot at you before you can say "damn!!"

An accurately-modeled Hornet vs. an accurately-modeled Viper would be cool. But note how many different versions of one type of aircraft exists in FSX/FS9, just because one group has issues with the flight model or weight distribution or whatever. I don't want to get into that pot again.

They got the FLIR working in this thing! Probably the biggest cause of delay for release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-bPxOM0jYs

Could become very interesting if it's a fully working machine. Just need some third party campaign add-ons (I would pay).


edit for typo.

I can't access SOH, but here's the link from the VRS forum .

TacPack FLIR tech demo
by VRS Varmint » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:33 pm

Ok everyone, a little taste of our horrible video skilz, and our much better avionic skills. Keep in mind this is very raw, very unedited video of a very beta implementation, and doesn't demonstrate many of the finer points, but it does show you what's in store. This is much less than you deserve for your patience, but much more than you were probably expecting since it was never an officially listed feature:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-bPxOM0jYs

Higher resolutions should become available as YouTube finishes processing the video. This is not a publicly listed video since it's so raw, but feel free to pass along the link.

Enjoy, and Merry Christmas to all.

P.S. No more MUX FAIL!

And Varmint's reply to the FSX limitations
Re: TacPack FLIR tech demo
by VRS Varmint » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:24 am

FSX does not provide/simulate moisture in any addressable way. This is the same reason why you will not find any sort of real weather radar that does anything other than "fake it" using clouds. So the answer is no, weather will not affect the performance of these systems. We fully simulate terrain masking with the radar, and that is/was our primary goal. The FLIR will be subject to the same visual constraints you would see out the window initially (albeit improved night vision), and as time permits, we will continue to simulate features that move closer toward IR. However the same basic limitations exist now that have always existed - we must use the database that FSX provides. No true IR signature data exists in that database anymore than true weather data, so the best we can do is work with the data that does exist.

WOW, that FLIR really looks great! However I do have the following questions:
-> Does this addon comes with some sort or a campaign/career? If yes, how does it work? If not, what kind of gameplay (missions) does it have?
-> What kind of enemies are present (aircraft, tanks/ground vehicles, air defences, etc...)? Are enemy units competent fighting and firing againt the player?

Thanks in advance for replies...

Ric,

Here's the link to VRS Tacpack forum. Recommend you check the various threads contained within. You will also see a note about FSX@war that plans ot interface with the VRS Tacpack that might answer some of your questions.

http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/p...435e6657c73baa2

Also, you may have to register to view the thread, not certain.

Matt

It's like Jane's all over again; except this time we have Milvis F-15 and VRS F/A-18

I truely hope for WSO pits because I can't really fly anymore.

I read that the Iris F-15E fully supports the WSO; I have not flown it, but it's probably worth looking into.

I haven't seen though where Iris F-15E has any amount of working avionics to suppoer the rear pit though. The Iris bird I believe is more eye candy than substance, though very delightful candy indeed. Milviz also comes with some very nice AI and scenery as well. My monies on the Milviz bird.

Matt

Thanks for the reply, strykerpsg

It will still lack ground and air AI (it will include a basic SA-2 that will work like AIcarrier, that's it) as well as a virtual marhsall.

yes they can put a sniper pod on them .. that's the same we use in DCS A10 I believe?? Or is it lightening TGP?

The F/A-18E/F uses the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATFLIR

I apologize in advance for being blunt but as a long time user of FSX, IMHO trying to convert FSX into a pseudo combat-sim is a fool's errand: you will never get a combat AI.

Its no fools errand as TacPac will bring just that - on a multiplayer platform.

Ok, no AI *yet*, but never say never. You only need someone to code AI, that's all, there's no magic there. AI is pretty dumb and predicatbale anyways, multiplayer is key and just around the corner.

Firing real missile objects and using ATFLIR was considered impossible in FSX not so long ago, until a dedicated team took the task of creating it.

Now in closed beta

Wrong. It DOES have FLIR. Already seen working videos of it from Beta Testers.

EXACTLY.

If you can get the rest of this injected into FSX then you can figure out a way to insert AI logic. Probably it will come from a third-party developer using the SDK, when that gets released, but that is still a couple stages away.


EDIT: AI logic exists in a good handful of other sims like the various flavors of F4, StrikeFighters series, and the list goes on. Hell, who is to say that we couldn't extract the AI logic portion of our own beloved Janes FA-18 and implement that as a third party TacPack module?

I posted that at the end of March. The devs presented a video of it working nine months later, and you "corrected" me about it five months later. Kinda slow on the uptake there, Rippy

Wait, this IS a thread titled VRS Superbug + Tacpack vs Janes FA-18, correct? So even back in March 2011, about the time Jon starting doing interviews about the product, I'm guessing you must have had some level of product knowledge to make this statement.

Yeah, cause back in March 2011, when I first pre-ordered the TacPack, the devs explicitly said "there is no working FLIR." In fact, I think I even quoted it on their forums in jest:

http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=53859#p53859

Then I do offer my apologies then because I had been under the impression that we always knew we would have FLIR in some capacity at the time that Tacpack was announced.

Ripcord

Oh, thats alright then. No worries.