Hello guys,

I have this problem with Il-2... My wingman is, how I say it... stupid. Plain and simple.

I don't remember if these problems were present in previous Il-2, but in 1946, they are. So I was hoping some of you have faced these problems and can give me some tips.

My wingman has three problems:

1) He keeps shooting at me! (Not only my wingman, but actually any friendly plane) Yes, when I'm after an enemy plane he comes from behind and starts shooting, like if I weren't there! I could understand this if I were after a fighter, moving like crazy and the poor WM doesn't see me coming... but it also happens when I'm after a bomber, level, aiming for a shot. He comes from behind and bang! "Number One, hit the silk!"

2) He keeps flying in formation, even in the middle of a dogfight. I don't know why, I give him the order to cover me, engage fighter, or whatever, but he just keeps flight in formation, even when I have a Zero shooting the hell out of me.

3) He keeps crashing when I'm landing. When coming from a mision I ask the tower for landing permission and the wingman is at my 4 O'Clock. Then I start to dive and slow down, the wingman is still there. Then I lower my landing gear and flaps and, yes, my wingman is still there. Then I'm too slow and low for him to keep the pace and he crashes! Even worst, sometimes I get caught in the explosion and... it's very frustrating

So, does anybody know what might be going on? Some tips? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

1) He is not shooting at you. The AI has a one track mind and really doesn't know/care you are there. It is simply attacking the enemy plane in front of it. Move out of the way. There are also commands you can give to your flight members to break off their attack.

2) You must not be giving the command correctly. The AI will usually 'try' to do what you tell it. They may not always succeed, but they will try.

3) There are commands to tell your flight members to return to base. You have to give these commands. The AI cannot read your mind.





Aviar

Yeah, I know they don't see you, they even crash against you from time to time . I'll try giving them a "break" call. Although the problem will persist if the plane is not from my flight...




Hmmm... I'm positive on this, when the enemy planes are near I call "Attack Fighters", the wingman stays with me (this is probably the correct behavior). Then when we engage I call "Cover me", the wingman stays with me. If things get nasty I call both attack or cover to see what he does. I am 100% sure he is flying in formation with me.

What commands do you use in these situations?




Ah... "Return to base"... Understood. I thought he will be smart enough to recognize that if I contacted the tower... never mind. It's odd anyway, because if I set autopilot on, he never says "Number Two, return to base"... But #2 knows what's going on.

Thanks Aviar, I'll try these new ideas and report back.

I mostly use my wingmen as bait and spotters - and I watch my personal wingmen very closely. Not perfect, but manageable.

I just issue the 'attack fighters/bombers' to the whole flight including wingman which releases the wingman away from me to attack others. 'Cover me' normally just gets him to rejoin and he will stick there - with a bit of luck the enemy plane will shoot at him before you!

As for landing just get him to break and tell him to land and then make your own way to land.

One thing that does annoy me is the superior speed of the AI planes in your flight. You will be going full speed and just lining up a bandit when one of your flight will cruise past and shoot him down. Being very childish I have shot him down as revenge - well it makes me feel better

I'm doing the same thing, but looks like he always finds the opportunity to rejoin. Maybe he gets cold feet with so many targets



hahaha I read somewhere (I think on these forums) that AI doesn't suffer from engine overheat... so they'll always have this advantage. That wouldn't be a problem if they just wait until they pass over me before they open fire!

If you favour such things, there is now a mod which introduces overheating to the ai planes, levels the playing-field a little.

For 4.11 they are working on AI improvements, including a "check-fire" functionality where AI won't shoot a friendly if they're in the way.

When leading a 4-ship flight, you may need to command your flight and wingman individually. Your wingman will stayed glued to you (real WW-2 tactic in early years of the war) unless you specifically order him to attack.

I use the rejoin command a lot when entering a "furball" with AI wingmen. Planes 3 and 4 will attack on their own initiative when they detect the enemy, and will often fly to their doom.... I try keep them in close to me until all 4 of us have a height and angles advantage on the bandits, then turn them loose. If I do this, I often "save them from themselves" and we all make it home. If I forget, I often return to base alone...

Best wishes.

Hmmm... I'm positive on this, when the enemy planes are near I call "Attack Fighters", the wingman stays with me (this is probably the correct behavior). Then when we engage I call "Cover me", the wingman stays with me. If things get nasty I call both attack or cover to see what he does. I am 100% sure he is flying in formation with me.

What commands do you use in these situations?


The ones you mentioned will work most of the time. However, my favorite method is to Padlock the enemy plane I want dead and then tell my wingman to 'Attack My Target'.

Aviar

Does the "break" command even work? In all the versions of IL2 I've ever played this command has never resulted in a response from my AI wingmen or other pilots.

In 10 years I've never used it, so I couldn't tell ya. Too busy actually fighting...plus it always seemed like a silly command to begin with.

Aviar

Interesting topic. Will see if things can get better in my "Disaster on the frontiers" campaign, the Soviet AI squadmates are simply the worst of any of the nations I've played offline with.

Cover me seems to do nothing more than make your wingman stay on your six till he gets shot down, and 3 just ignores it and goes off attacking anyway unless you order a rejoin.

Target selection is truly awful, all the flight leads seem to want to shoot at the same target even if they are being attacked by an enemy and most shocking of all, wingmen don't seem to even help out their flight leads when they are under attack!

Thought this might improve with experience/sorties flown/promotions etc but it does not appear to do so (now Oct '43).

Did a quick test with the German AI and I did not have these problems anywhere near as bad.

Are the Russian AI pilots programmed to be idiots?

Well I see I'm not the only one that doses this. And it dose make me feel a little better after I feel the little kill stealers full of holes.


Slikk

Although this rarely happens to me... the AI is sort of mindless about shooting through one plane to hit another. One track mind as others have said.


All IL-2 formations feature a leader and a wingman. If two planes then one leader and one wingman. If three planes then it's two leaders and one wingman attached to the first leader. Four planes has two leaders and two wingmen. So on and so forth. When you order the wing to attack the wing then breaks into leader and wingman pairs. So 1 and 3 will attack while 2 and 4 will cover 1 and 3 respectively. Just like they are supposed to in real life. If you want your wingman to attack independently then you need to order him to do so.

The only exception to this rule is when facing a formation of bombers. All leaders and wingmen will attack in that situation.


In this case you are the wing leader and you've failed to order a return to base. If you don't the AI will risk virtual life and limb to maintain formation. Usually that means flying very low and very slow and crashing. If you are the wing leader you need to order them back to base. Real wing leaders would in some situations do that as well.


Also I feel I should mention that AI pilots firing through you to hit their targets is not unlike the chronic "shoulder shooters" in exclusively human online dogfights and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it didn't happen in World War II as well - more likely due to target fixation... but not unlike the AI in-game.

So although the AI is stupid in a artificial way they in some ways more accurately represent the human condition than we may like to acknowledge

Since I opened this I've been experiencing with all you guys said and things have been improving, a little, but improving. The break command seems to be very helpful to keep your flight from shooting YOUR target. The problem comes when there are more than one flight, and you don't have enough rank to rule over them.

The "return to base" solved the problem with the crashing-when-landing wingman, so thanks Aviar and IceFire for their suggestions.

The only problems that persist are friendly fire, collisions, and everybody flying faster than you... But... well, something to get used to. Let's see what 4.11 brings to the table.

PS: And yes I, like NineLives and Slikk, am a member of the "take that! shoot my target now mother*!" club too (and of "take that! stupid tanker" club in F4AF" ).

I just remembered these threads that KiwiBiggles did at M4T in 2009/2010.

Wingman and Flight Commands

AI Wingman Commands I

AI Wingman Commands II - Flight Commands

AI Wingman Commands III - Squadron Commands

Hope they help.


Wheels

I'd like to add that these are all well and good if you happen to be lead on the flight, however, wingmen commands seem to be verboten when you are in the 2, 3, or 4 slot. One of the gaffs I find is when I'm flying #2 and the leader dies... Then you have those left in the flight following you everywhere like lost sheep with no way to tell'em anything. If they recognize you as the leader, then it should be likewise with the radio commands.

Ah well, maybe a bug fix in a future patch.

BTW: They only really fly faster than you if you aren't flying to the best of your planes ability. Trim, engine management where appropriate and proper flying technique (favour correct climb speed over angle in climbs for example) will allow you to match the AI in 95% of cases. Only a few times are they able to fly away from me now. I can usually catch and pass them... unless the mission designer has laid out the waypoint to tell that the AI should fly at maximum possible speed (rare).