just a note..im going to take a stab at building an Apache Longbow collective stick...complete with working hats, triggers and buttons...will keep this threat updated with progress...

13" = 33 cm is actually fairly close, is that not too close? I tend to crawl into my monitor when at work but when flying I am a bit further a way with the HOTAS in front of me, probably so 50-60 cm in real units (26" ) I guess a DIY pit like Kimchocs also puts you in a position further away?
What is the effect then?

Mind you icetecs price is excellent!

rocky we need pics ASAP and as you go along!!!!!

Gotcha, yes, 60" is too far away. You loose the whole idea of a simpit. Its like looking at a TV. Unbeknownst to me, I bought a fresnel for a TV. I thought that since it was used for a simpit, then it would work. I have mentioned my difficulty to the site i and they were more than happy to let me return it. But I kept it to learn a bit and actually get some flying in. I might purchase another in the future that will do exactly what i want.
Like Griz said, there are varibles that you should know before buying one. I am pretty confident that once I get all my dimensions the way I want them, I can find one that will fill my screen up. When you sit 60" back you can see how well it actually works. The screen is filled and the picture is nice. No circles or rings. You simply have to remember that you have spent 56.00 and not 800.00. Because thats the choice. If you want big it is either a projector of a very large LCD TV. And again i restate, if you want to see the piece of dust on your panel, then the fresnel is NOT the way to go. A simpit, IMHO is an effort to fly more immersivly by placing all the controls the proper distance and sitting in a seat that is close to what you might see in an aircraft/racecar. I plan switches on boards to take over the keyboard duties. There is nothing like reaching over and flipping a switch to lock your target, vs. hitting a key on a keyboard. For about 100.00, you can get a pc board that allows you to hook up about 72 basic switches from Radio Shack. These switches take over the keyboard duties.
Anyhow, here is a pic of how I started my measurement thinking.




In YELLOW was my first concern. the heigth of the yoke and the distance from my seat. I built it so that my arms were comfortably extended. The seat also moves back and forwards quite a bit.
Next, I set the distance and angle to the lower monitor. basically that was set by the position of the yoke. I made the monitor as close as it could go behind the yoke.
Then the biggest measurement was the fresnel , GREEN, distance. I first built a small rig to test it on my usual gaming computer and I came up with a distance of about 36". I made a separate box so that I could move it within the large side panels. The 19" monitor also moves within the box to try different distances from the lens. Inside is flat black. Black rubber does sound interesting. Daytime flying is no problem because the box is sealed from the light. Nightime flying is AWESOME. I am pretty comfortable with a 11" distance from lens to monitor and about 36" from lens to my eyes. At those distances the 19" does not fill up the full fresnel area, but it is significantly larger than a 19" display. It appears suspended in mid air after I painted the inside flat black.

This pic shows a better perspective since I moved it into its almost permanent home. Look at the entirety of what you see here. Notice the real pilot headset and intercom system given to me as gift. You should hear the voice trans. It is scratchy and crackly just like the real thing. maybe because it is, LOL. The flight data recorder is in place. The spare computer is just a place for the mouse. I plane a shelf there with the throttles monuted and switch panles. I nned to do some re-thinking on that as i planned on getting in the simpit from the other side.
Next, I'll mod an X45 stick like the pic earlier in the thread. The yoke will come out and the stick goes in for helo flying. X45 throttle will be converted into collective like rockys idea. That mounts on the left.
This feels more like a cockpit than your desk. I have about 60.00 in wood materials and carseat from the junkyard.

Tatsu, the wife wouldnt mind the cost, probably the space. Ever thought of the attic?

thanks Kimchoc for all the details, your pit really looks good. I am talking about 60 CM not 60 inch! I have to so a session of flying and try and find out what I actually do and how far I sit from the screen. Your 36" sounds ok...
I have put the question to icetek what the effect was with a 26" distance

I cant figure out the distance reccommended in those lens. Is it 13"? This looks like one of the best sites I've seen for fresnels though.

Hello people,

That's an impressive simulator, Kimchoc1!

Our VX-1 isn't suitable for viewing at a distance greater than 18 inches (from eye to monitor screen). The lens would be placed between 8 and 9 inches and you would typically view from approx. 5 inches from the lens.

We do have a new type of lens however and it has some unique properties!

1: It can be used at a much greater distance from the monitor.

2: It allows you to view from a much greater distance (26 inches from eye to monitor screen is no problem for this lens).

3: It doesn't distort the image even when lens or viewing position is quite far from the screen!

4: Lens features higher groove density than our VX-1 lens.

We only have one of these lenses in stock at the moment!

The lens is 350 x 270mm (so it's rectangular). Although the lens itself isn't very big it gives best performance with larger monitors! It would work very well with a 19" but even better with a 21 or even larger!

Nice info! That might be just what we need. My whole purpose is to have the second monitor with guages for FS. There is some juicy discussion here regarding one day being able to do the same with EECH. Just got to get the right folks interested. That particular type of setup is excellent.

I'll check your website and se if I can find it. Thanks for checking in with us.. and thanks for the compliment on the pit.

Thanks for the input RAF Icetec-uk, there are a lot of 'us' looking at the fresnel idea, myself included. You site has some innovative prefab fresnel box ideas--Nice. The quick setup is a plus for folks like me with little extra time to do our own 'building.' I like the 'removeable' box idea with velcro.

Kimchoc, one word--Awesome pit, dude.

GrizzlyT, thanks for the info.

For many of us, this distance is a little close for using a throttle/stick and/or pedals, although not completely out of the question. My monitor is pretty high as it is, almost eye level, but if you are saying that 9+5=13inches is the ideal distance with your vr boxes, that is a bit tight. 18 inches is more reasonable, but still snug. I could consider it, though, if the visual effect was strong enough... The idea of a 21 inch monitor appearing as a 42 inch one only 13 inches from your nose seems too good to be true. The filling of your peripheral vision might truly create some motion sickness--Bring it on, baby!

26" distance for eyes-to-monitor would be much easier to accomodate a standard flight controller setup. What would the monitor to lens distance be (how deep would the box need to be), and what would the subsequent lens to eye distance be? Tell us some more.
SPECs please, if it's not too much hassle, like focal length, etc. Would the visual clarity be the same or better than your other 'closer' setup or would it be lost with the extra distance? Also would you then lose much of the magnification factor? Sorry about all the questions, but it all sounds very interesting. Will you have the new lens on your website soon?

I certainly agree that the short viewing distance can be a drawback (especially where a dedicated cockpit sim is used). Having conducted more tests on this new lens I suspect we will be selling it as the lens of choice for fresnel VR. The focal length is 600mm which is quite astounding for a small lens. Not only that but the image quality is very high due to the higher facet density.

I have tested the lens at varying distances up to 21 inches from the screen and there is no image distortion. Our VX-1 would distort the image past 9 inches and the image distortion would further increase as your eye to lens distance increases.

I have tested the lens between 16 and 21 inches from the screen and with varying eye distances from the lens between 5 and 15 inches.

Magnification factor is less than the VX-1 and I would estimate the image to be magnified 50% (Fresnel VR isn't just about magnification of course, it's about the extended focal plane as well).

Normally the viewing distance between eye and lens needs to be quite small to maximise the sense of immersion. This new lens gives a good sense of immersion even at viewing distances of 12 inches or more from eye to lens.

It would be possible to fit the lens to a lightweight helmet (i.e. cycling helmet). For those who prefer a fixed position mount then the lens is very accomodating.

As I previously mentioned this lens performs best with larger monitors and if your display is 21 inches or higher then you will experience spectacular VR! If your monitor is 19 inches then results will still be pretty good.

The lens hasn't yet been added to our website and we only have 1 sample to sell at this time.

Thanks for the info. (Don't mean to hijack the thread, Kimchoc1). Sounds like a nice lens. Keep us posted...