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#3711776 - 01/04/13 07:52 AM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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When the target is above the the SNR, than several functions could return 0, so this issue should be investigated more.
I believe that when target goes out of P-40's detection, "Pat Hand" just must stop trackin it (when no range or angle track was established0, and when it appears again, should be reaquired with the joystick on p-40 and then send to "Pat hand'.... It is a quite an interesting issue how "Long track" is autotracking targets...  The 1S12 SOC (Long Track) tracks the target similarly as the modern digital radars (ST-68U [Tin Shield]) do, just they do it for several targets parallel.  It first measures the (X/Y/H)"0" coordinate of a target, than during the next sweep, finds the closest target to that coordinate. This will be the (X/Y/H)"1" coordinate. With a quick math, delta(X/Y/H) is determined. During the third sweep, it looks for the closest target at (X/Y/H)"1" + delta(X/Y/H). That will be (X/Y/H)"2", and the difference from (X/Y/H)"1" is again delta(X/Y/H). etc...
Edited by Hpasp (01/04/13 07:54 AM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3753061 - 03/18/13 03:46 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 873
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According to the manual, the target and the missile where tracked by different antennas (1/2), and with ABC-I only - in (T/T)... Let's imagine a situation of switching from 1/2 to T/T, if the missile is beyond the ABC-I diagram, could we loss a missile, and is such changing in methods of guidance is possible at all? 
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#3753065 - 03/18/13 03:54 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: piston79]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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According to the manual, the target and the missile where tracked by different antennas (1/2), and with ABC-I only - in (T/T)... Let's imagine a situation of switching from 1/2 to T/T, if the missile is beyond the ABC-I diagram, could we loss a missile, and is such changing in methods of guidance is possible at all? Not exactly. The target is always tracked by the AVS-I antenna. Right after the launch, the missile is tracked by the AVS-II antenna system, in both (1/2, 3T) guidance methods. During 1/2 guidance method, the missile is kept tracked by the AVS-II till hit. With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)
Edited by Hpasp (03/18/13 03:57 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3753072 - 03/18/13 04:19 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 873
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With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)
So, if we switch from 1/2 to t/t, it will change the antennas only when missiles goes in AVS-I beam... But what about the opposite? 
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#3753075 - 03/18/13 04:28 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: piston79]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)
So, if we switch from 1/2 to t/t, it will change the antennas only when missiles goes in AVS-I beam... But what about the opposite? The AVS-II is always tracking the missile, just the AVS-I is used for better resolution in case of 3T. In real life, switching between method 3T to 1/2 would probably mean the loosing of the missile... In the KRUG manual it is stated, that the Commander choose between the 3T* or 1/2 guidance method before launch, and it is forbidden to change it during missile flight. * please use 3T and 1/2 guidance methods when discussing the KRUG. (not T/T and UPR)
Edited by Hpasp (03/18/13 04:38 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3753680 - 03/19/13 03:29 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 873
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In the KRUG manual it is stated, that the Commander choose between the 3T* or 1/2 guidance method before launch, and it is forbidden to change it during missile flight.
OK, that's fine... * please use 3T and 1/2 guidance methods when discussing the KRUG. (not T/T and UPR) OK, I do, but 3T and T/T is the same (" treh tochka" - "three points" or "3 points")
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#3753685 - 03/19/13 03:43 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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farokh
Member
Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 612
Loc: IRAN
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excuse me guys.. what different between 3T and T/T ?
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#3753735 - 03/19/13 05:03 PM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: piston79]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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OK, I do, but 3T and T/T is the same ("trehtochka" - "three points" or "3 points")
Correct. Just use the correct name for the system. KRUG use 1/2 or 3T guidance methods. Osa will use the T/T or the Fi method.
Edited by Hpasp (03/19/13 05:14 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3754035 - 03/20/13 08:33 AM
Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)
[Re: Hpasp]
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farokh
Member
Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 612
Loc: IRAN
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Osa will use the T/T or the Fi method. what is the FI mode ? this method usually use for IR tracking?
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