So, it's now time for Pepper's quarterly "help me pick a gaming system" Heh. This is beginning to seem like the boy who cried wolf. However...Now that I am wanting to fly the VRS F/A-18E for FSX and play Arma2, I do finally think I have two games that need a new system to run well, so it seems worth building a rig now.

Though there is of course the question of whether any killer new tech gear is coming out soon.

So, I'm budgeting $2500 tops, hopefully a bit less, (don't need monitor or peripherals like mouse, keyboard, hotas), and want it to be the most kickbutt system I can make. Holding off on triple monitor gaming this round, until I know I can drive 3 30" monitors at high settings and smooth frame rates, without spending $3,500+ or so.

AMD/NVIDIA/Intel makes no difference to me- I don't have any brand allegiance. I am interested in Sandybridge, and have been somewhat paying attention to the recall. Hopefully within the next month or so this will be sorted out, such that buying a Sandybridge Mobo is a safe bet?

I would like to be able to overclock things (RAM, GPU, anything else?) so that I can squeeze more performance out of the system further down the road when games have gotten more demanding on it.

Tom's Hardware recently profiled their $2000 build. Here are the specs, with my notes where I will likely differ:


Motherboard Gigabyte X58A-UD3R: LGA 1366, Intel X58 Express, ICH10R

Processor Intel Core i7-950: 3.06 GHz, Quad-Core, Eight-threads
Memory Kingston KHX1600C7D3K3/6GX:
DDR3-1600 CAS 7, 6 GB
***I would likely go 8 GB RAM***

Graphics2 x Gigabyte GV-R687D5-1GD-B
1 GB Radeon HD 6870
***Must drive 2560x1600 resolution at max settings with fluid (30+) frames on the most demanding games, and hopefully be powerful enough to provide a decent/good 3 30” monitor (7680x1600) surround gaming solution if I decide to go that route eventually (within the next 18 months).***

System Drive2 x A-Data S599 64 GB: SATA 3Gb/s MLC SSD
***I would likely go for twice this size, or four times., and in a RAID configuration. Games will take up space quickly.***

Storage Drive Samsung F3 HD103SJ: 1 TB, 7200 RPM HDD

Optical Lite-On iHBS212 BD-RE:
12x BD-R, 2x BD-RE, 16x DVD±

Case Corsair Graphite Series 600T
***must be big enough to leave room for very large graphics cards, in case I choose to replace AMDs with NVIDIAs in SLI down the road***

Power Seasonic SS-850HT: 850 W, 80 PLUS Silver
***I’d likely choose a 1,000W PSU so I have juice to spare***

Heat Sink Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B

CPU Fan Cooler Master R4-BMBS-20PK-R0 2000 RPM, 120 mm

Total Price$1920

***Mine would be higher due to more memory, SSD storage size, and PSU power, and I do need to buy an OS, some variant of Windows 7- which version do folks suggest?**

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/newegg-combo-toms-hardware-do-it-yourself,2828.html

Thanks a lot for any input any of you all might have.

If you are going the triple channel route, you'll either have to choose between 6 and 12 GB of RAM. 8GB kits are for double channel mobos. (or you can go with an AMD processor and mobo).

I would go for the Radeon HD 6970 in the 2GB configuration.

It would certainly enhance your experience with the texture processing hungry ARMA 2.

Thanks. Hmm, 12 GB seems like overkill but I wonder if 6 GB would be a limiting factor in games within the next year or two.

That's not the fastest system for the money, I think. Based on my experience with 3x24" monitors, to drive 3x30 inch monitors, you need to plan on Crossfire or SLI or dual-GPU cards with either Nvidia's or AMD's fastest card. Moreover, you want cards with 2GB or more graphics memory per GPU. Today, the 2GB AMD solution is HD6980 (cheaper than the GTX580 and made for 3x monitors from the getgo) -- start with a single card and go to Crossfire when you expand to 3x30 monitors (cards will be cheaper then).

Thing is, there are two new GPUs coming out during the next month or so (?). The dual-GPU AMD HD6990 and Nvidia's answer the dual-GPU HD590 (?). That could enter into the mix.

Moreover, in 4 weeks AMD showcases the all-new Bulldozer at CeBit (and a new motherboard chipset). Who knows if the rumors are correct. But, if they are, it will be the CPU to get (not going on sale until April/May -- per rumor). Anyhow, Sandy Bridge motherboards may not be sorted out until about that time either.

So, maybe wait one more quarter to see how the CPU, motherboard, and GPU situation shapes up

After these upcoming changes, CPUs should stay relatively the same for a year or two. GPUs may change in the Fall according to a minor rumor -- but, may stay similar (minor mods) for a year until the 28nm GPUs are released (all depends on when 28nm manufacturing is working profitably).

When do you "really" need this new system?

Thanks, Allen. Hmmm, "need" won't really enter into it until say April, after the new Battle of Britain sim from Oleg and co. hopefully comes out. So maybe it's worth waiting on Bulldozer and the newer dual-GPU AMD and NVIDIA?

My 2 cents, prying the Tom's Hardware system appart:


With SoW:CoD, we'll need to wait for reviews to see if GHz, cores and/or HT are the biggest contributors to performance.
It could turn out that SoW:CoD runs best on 3 threads with no HT, but we'll have to wait for first results.

We'll need the 64Bit exe to be able to use more than 4GB allocated for the programme. The 6GB recommendation was due to the system being "triple channel", but I agree with you on 8GB (and if budget stretches...)

The 6870 was no improvement on the 5870. Ilya or Oleg said that more graphic RAM would be best for a smooth experience (textures and models in memory, no disk access stutter). Also mentioned was, that SLI/CF would not mean more performance than single-GPU, but we'll need to wait for user experience with Eyefinity/SurroundGaming.

For price/performance I would go 2x128GB and RAID0, even if that might cost "TRIM".

This would be replaced by 2 600GB VelociRaptors in RAID0 and backed up by a 2TB or 3TB drive.

Look at E-ATX and XL-ATX cases for some extra room then. I have a SilverstoneFT02B-W and it has the back on the top and a 5870 fits well. It's not perfect, but I like it's unique features. Maybe a "HAF X" or Antec P193 V3 will fit the bill?

As long as your choice is a quality product from a reputable manufacturer. Maybe a CM Silent Pro Gold? I'm a Seasonic user myself.

This is a point to always research. I always check with the reviews on FrostyTech.

Windows7 Professional.

I hope you'll find this useful enough to come back to, once CoD is out (March 22/23) and you're about to decide.

Am I the only one that finds that tomshardware pc overpriced?

Anyway, get a good case, preferably a full tower. The case is the one component that you can keep the most years after you buy them. The HAF X/932 cases are good, a Cosmos S might be better. It may take more room than a mid tower, but the way things are going right now, an expensive case could be the only good investment in the pc market, as every other part gets replaced by something better every few months, except for the memory maybe.

If you can, wait for as long as you can. Near the summer the Bulldozer is coming out and the high end Sandy Bridges shouldn't be too far from getting released. If AMD manages to reach Intel performance wise you'll probably get a much better pc with the same money by then. Also, I think the next generation of Sandforce SSDs will be out or close to by then which should mean more MB per dollar.

Thanks a lot folks, very helpful advice. Yes, I can wait a few more months

Sandy Bridge will be fixed by April and will be the king again I figure. AMD has some compelling solutions right now too.

My first impulse reaction reading your introduction was: For 2500USD sans Pheripherals, you will have the fastest system you can do, no real matter where you buy.

I think Tom's Build is pretty good.

I think 6GB RAM will be plenty for the time being. Not sure you need 1000W power either, especially if you run SSDs. As long as those 850W are mostly on the 12v rail.

RAID0-ing SSDs is a tad overkill and might introduce backup/recovery problems down the road. Heck, you want to be really sure the Mobo/RAID Controller can actually handle those transfer rates. I'd go with two separate volumes in 128GB size. Lots easier to recover.

If you have a ton of games, you will likely not want to afford SSD space for all of them. FSX alone can fill one.

I've never been a fan of SLI, you see it with CoD already that there are rumors of support problems. As with most other games, SLI seems to be something that requires a lot of fussing around. But yeah, if you want to power triple 30" down the road it will be necessary. Otherwise I'd simple go with the fastest single GPU solution of your prefered brand, and either swap that out for a powerful single GPU down the road.

BTW, while I'd love a 30"x3 setup myself (the vertical/portrait scape one...) I seriously doupt that you really need those kinds of resolution. 3x1920x1200 would be more than adequate, cost less than half and give you better framerate.

Thanks Colonel.

The reason I won't consider monitors less than 30" is b/c I watch lots of movies and tv on my computer (I don't own a TV), so I cannot see myself enjoying that on a single 24" monitor, so I would use my center 30" for watching stuff on (I hear that surround works for games but not for movies- ie the resolution of the video won't go to 7680).

I guess I could game at resolutions lower than the native 2560 per monitor, but I am not sure that I would enjoy that as much or that it would look good. I thought that LCD monitors don't downscale very well, or maybe it's more an issue of perspective (16:10) than of resolution?

I would get the sandy bridge platform, good deal faster.. or wait a bit more for the X68.

And for the SSD, 1: OCZ OCZSSDPX-1RVD0120 (540 read/480 MB/s write).

And for sure 8 gig memory (or 12 when x58/x68), they are pretty cheap to get now, you don't need the fastest/most expensive memory really, better invest some saved money in your ssd or gpu.

Pepperg., you can get reasonable 27" and 28" 1920x1200 screens, which is what I often use for watching movies. 24" would indeed be a bit low.

Downscaling 2560x certainly would not look good, I agree with that. But at the same time, I can't imagine that from "normal gaming distance" this very high DPI will actually be of benefit. So IMHO from an imagequality/size/cost relation, 3x28" size 1920x1200 will be better.

Reviving my "help me figure out a $2000-2500 build thread"

So, is Bulldozer out and worth it (and better for gaming than SandyBridge), and have there been any kickass new AMD or NVIDIA graphics cards that represent more than an incremental improvement?

Also curious if there's any other significant tech out or upcoming soon, and if SSD prices are expected to decrease.

Thanks

For the video card, the beast that dethroned the 580.

AMD 6990


Bulldozer coming very soon. Some rumors say by the end of the month. Again, rumors put it on par, if not better than SandyBridge.


Latest SSD tech AFAIK: http://www.guru3d.com/article/intel-510-ssd-review/

Thanks

Going forward, as new multi-threaded game engines are coming on line, an 8 full-time core Bulldozer "should" best a 4 core CPU with hyperthreading. Also, Bulldozer "rebalances" between floating point performance and integer performance in its architecture. This should help in "older" games that ran better on Intel. So, on paper, it has many things going for it. We won't know until we have them on the market. Bulldozer prices are rumored to be relatively low. Looking like early Summer for Bulldozer -- but, who knows?

The HD69xx series is AMD's "new" architecture (the HD68xx is a tweaked older architecture). The HD69xx prices have come down so much that I'm surprised at the value. However, both AMD and Nvidia still use 40nm process. Next Fall (?) the 28nm node arrives (it is rumored) and GPU transistor density may nearly double -- with associated improvements in speed for both AMD and Nvidia. Think of the HD69xx and GTX580 as "placeholders" or "stopgaps" while we await 28nm.

For $2500, you will be able to buy more than you need this Fall (if the rumors are true). I'll be looking to upgrade completely -- but, my goal is approximately $1000 for the computer itself (excluding keyboard, monitors, etc). We'll see

I think this will be a popular card when it comes out.


http://www.evga.com/articles/00613/

You might want to still consider SB. Check out the results on this mobo here. 4.8Ghz

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3934/as...iew/index5.html

Also 4.5Ghz using auto overclocking.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/har...-review-15.html