http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18dOzeDtpr4&feature=player_embedded

See 0:32

Based on WW2 gun camera movies, I'd say its possible to see bullet trails, and doubly I suppose the Magpul guys just film stuff, they don't do FX

Pretty cool if it looks like that, and I'd like to see it in more FPS games.

What you are seeing in the video is bullet trace, a mirage type pattern caused by air pressure changes in the wake of the bullet. What you see in WW2 gun cam films is actual tracers, phosphorous burning in the base of the bullet. The former is very difficult to see, the latter very easy. No relation between the two.

I have done a bit of long range shooting and could observe bullet trace when spotting for the shooter, but did not see it when shooting myself. You only really see this through a magnified optic looking down the bullet's path.

It takes some practice to be able to follow trace effectively, and it's VERY difficult to do it in your own scope unless you're shooting something with little recoil, or off a really solid rest (tripod for instance). It takes some practice to spot for someone else even.

-Jenrick

I had to chime in on this, unless your filming with one of those $50,000 slow speed video cameras, the answer is absolutely no & impossible to see it with your naked eye, even thru a spotting scope. I'm a SWAT sniper, I never seen it or ever even heard of people claiming to have seen it. Until now, that is! Most sniper type rounds travel in excess of 2800 FPS. What wake it leaves exist for fractions of milliseconds.

Well, a .308 round takes about 1/10th of a second to go 100 yards, or faster even, depending on the round. A m107/Mk82 has about the same velocity. So, let's say even though a .50 is bigger, so the wake is bigger. But when your talk about the human eye tracking a mirage that's only 1/2" around to start with, the difference is negligible. So, say if you could detect the ripple, you could see it for say, 10 yards out. This thing, and it does exist, only exist for slightly longer than the bullet length of travel through the same space. So it exists for 1/100th of a second in the distance where if your eyes were, I don't know, superhuman, you could see it. Those cameras that film that stuff slows things down the order of 1/50,000 of a second equals to 3 seconds or better even. So for people who claim seen it, well they probably seen Sasquach, UFOs, & the Mothman too, LOL

I suppose, they could be mistaking dust kicked up from a low flying round shot near the ground, that I've seen. The same day I saw a Yeti.

Silverswift: I'm gonna have to disagree with you, I've watched trace before when helping with a high power service rifle match. When you start talking 300+ yd shots you have time to watch the trace. If you check out any of the history channel sniper specials they have very good video of bullet trace. You're not actually looking for the 1/2" bullet moving through the air, but the ripple of lower pressure behind it that affects the mirage. If you've got very high humidity you can get a vapor trail much like a super sonic aircraft (never seen a vapor trail personally, just pictures). I agree that at short ranges (under 200 yards), it's going to be very hard/impossible to pickup. It's difficult to see if you don't know what you're doing, and it normally requires a spotting scope and for you to be directly in line with the bore.

-Jenrick

I disagree as well. I was taught what to look for by very experienced competitive shooters, including a number of police and military snipers and I didn't imagine it when I saw it, but this was shooting at 300, 500 and 600 yards.

After doing some research into this, I would have to say, for the sake of spirited discussion, with so many people claiming to have seen it, or it can be seen with the naked eye, it's possible under very limited conditions. And apparently you can film it without a slow speed camera. I know about trace, but I really don't see it's value as a Police sniper. You only get one shot, it's better to do your technical work before you pull the trigger. Having said that, I have never seen it from shooting in all conditions from all ranges up to 500 yards. Neither has my fellow snipers, or primary instructor. So, personal opinion is seeing trace with the naked eye, well you have to be pretty lucky, or spend hours looking for it. Good thread though, I've learned something!

Quick edit: just talked to another sniper instructor. He said, in his opinon, to see trace with you naked eye is virtually impossible. But he did state that if conditions are right, you can sometimes see it though a spotting scope. So I stand (slightly) corrected.

Went through sniper school in the Army. I never saw any trace through the my scope. Seen easily through the spotter scope.

Good discussion - thanks for the effort. I was not asking from the POV of how usable it is - though if visible, it might be - but rather out of curiosity and for reference vs games. What would be realistic, etc.

I remember watching a show on the History Channel (when it was good) about snipers; and they had a segment about their training. IIRC they said the spotter is actually trained to look for the "ripple" to track the shooters shots and correct; as bullets don't always create a dust cloud or obvious impact. But, it's usually only observed under perfect conditions...clear, fairly calm, directly behind, etc.
However, I highly doubt that the shooter can see it since the recoil and any other movement probably keeps the human eye from being able to focus on it.

Here's a vid at full-speed where you can pick up on it; but it's still hard to see unless you really are paying attention:

First of all, I apologize if I come off sounding either insulting, or like a troll. However, this is just a bit too much.

First and foremost, every sniper is a spotter, and every spotter is trained to find and follow trace. Trace is what allows a sniper to fire and adjust. Snipers aren't supercomputers, nor are they Hollywood actors. Real snipers miss targets due to the vast array of variables that effect the shot, and thus a second shot is sometimes required. It falls on the spotter to find and follow the trace through his spotting scope so he can provide the sniper with an near instant mill correction, thus allowing the sniper to reengage within ~2 seconds. The conditions that allow observation of trace are irrelevant, what is relevant is all snipers know what trace is and know how to find and follow it.

I'm sure SWAT follows the same guidelines as FBI snipers. The FBI mandates that no shooter is to remain on-scope for a duration in excess of 30 minutes due to a degrade in reactions. When the shooter goes off-scope the SWS is passed to the spotter, and the sniper takes his place in spotting. Further, I've never heard of a sniper that was only trained to engage targets at 600 yards. The effective range for the .308 round is 800m, and military snipers are taught to to engage targets out to 1000m. The fact that most SWAT sniper engagements will take place inside of 100-200 yards is irrelevant. You're a sniper and as such must be capable of employing your weapon system to it's limits and beyond.

You claim to be a SWAT sniper, and I can't help but call you on that. You're either:
A. A SWAT like sniper from a 3rd world country that has little to no grasp of marksmanship.
B. A SWAT sniper that had seriously flawed training.
Or the more likely option: C. You're full of crap.

/rant mode off

Easy there killer, if your not law enforcement officer I'll forgive your lack of knowledge regarding LE precision shooting.

LE precision shooting is a whole different type of work then military sniping, which is commonly shown on TV. LE shootings normally occur well UNDER 100 yds. Most of the time it's under 50 yds. Most LE sniper/precision rifle schools usually only shoot out to 500 yds as very few facilities have the ranges to go out past 500-600 yds. The most recent school offered in my area only shot out to 200yds as that was the longest range available. Most of the time LE snipers operate without a spotter (sad but true), due to manpower and budgetary constraints. They also are on their rifle quiet a bit longer then 30 minutes (the first time I deployed with my rifle as a patrolman I was on my rifle for about 2.5 hrs before I was relieved). As far as being able to out shoot your weapon, again a myth. The majority of LE long riflemen are going to get probably a half day every month to practice shooting (while the assaulters do their own thing), and another half day during the scenario portion of your training day.

The reality of LE sniper work is you are there to gather intelligence 99.999%+ of the time. A good LE sniper school will stress this, and actually not spend that much time on shooting. There is very little need in the civilian context to be able to accurately engage a point target (1"-2") at more then 200 yds. The fact of the matter is that unless you're talking a hostage situation or a terrorist/WMD incident, there are few reasons to engage a suspect that's 100+ yards away from civilians and other officers. Shooting at 100-200yds with any high velocity center fire caliber (from say .223 on up) is mainly point and shoot unless you're talking extreme elevations, winds, or target movements. Like I posted earlier at 300+ yds is when you start to have TIME to observe trace. As Silverswift pointed out, at 100yds the flight time of the bullet make it almost impossible to observe trace at short ranges that LE traditionally shoots at. Also in LE you don't the option to adjust in your fire, you either make the shot or you don't. If you screw it up the first time, the opportunity is normally gone and the ability to correct your aim via observed fall of shot is not possible.

Personal experience time: I am not a LE sniper, I am however a patrol rifle certified officer, and I do shoot and train a lot on my own time. This includes High Power service rifle competitions (200-300-600 yds stages w/ iron sights), and various tactical shooting matches. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of LE snipers/precision rifleman/long distance interpersonal conflict resolution specialists, will normally deploy closer then I initially do on most calls. I've never been to a SWAT call where we opened up the inner perimeter, we always get closer once the big toys get there.

Longest distance I've ever setup my rifle: 79 yds (went back and measured it with a laser)
Bullet flight time: .0846 seconds (@ 2800 FPS)
Shortest distance I've ever setup my rifle: 15 yds (paced it off when we got done that night)
Bullet flight time: .0160 seconds

-Jenrick

I'm NOT a sniper, and unfortunately NOT an active shooter, but I am an enthusiast. Take whatever I say with that in mind. /disclaimer

I've read and and watched a lot of material on sniping, and most accounts of seeing the heated vapor trail from the round come not from the sniper, but from the spotter or instructors. (sometimes captured on camera too)

I'm under the impression that the vapor trail is more visible in hot and humid conditions, such as you would find in hotter months in the US Southeast. (Virginia, Georgia, probably Texas too) Can anybody confirm or deny that?

To quote myself: "You're not actually looking for the 1/2" bullet moving through the air, but the ripple of lower pressure behind it that affects the mirage. If you've got very high humidity you can get a vapor trail much like a super sonic aircraft (never seen a vapor trail personally, just pictures)."

So trace is not an actual vapor trail, rather a visible area of low pressure (much like a ducks wake in a pond). Trace technically always visible, however environmental conditions can mask it. A true vapor trail is when the low pressure causes condensation to form. As such just as you asked, the hotter and more humid it is the better the chances you'll see a true vapor trail.

-Jenrick