Hi everyone. I'm slowly acquiring the gaming devices on my wish list for a generic jet sim pit. On my initial wish list I had the Butt Kicker Gamer, but now I'm having second thoughts. I've dusted off Jane's F/A-18 and started replaying it after several years away from it. Carrier ops is my favourite area of simming so I expect to play that most often in the finished pit. I also have unopened boxes of F4AF and LOMAC which I'm sure I'll try as well. With JF-18, the level of noise in the cockpit is so low, I'm thinking the only feedback I'll ever feel from the Butt Kicker is when I drill holes in the ground. So for right now that's quite a bit, but in the future I hope to do that less often. Does anyone have thoughts or experience with Butt Kicker and flight sims?

Thanks, Werner

Hello Werner

I am using a Buttkicker for years already and I never want to flight without it.
Its like using FFB sticks for a couple of years, you wont go back.

What sim do you fly Boandlgramer? What kind of "feel" do you get from the ButtKicker? Is it kind of a constant vibration all the time you're flying or does it give you some feedback when there is some kind of event in the game that causes more than normal background noise?

Well I have a BK and use the following sims to great effect:

IL2
Rise of Flight
DCS A10C/KA-50
Armed Assault

In those sims I can tweak my system to give a gentle vib. for general flying, and still get big jolts for AAA fire or taking fire. Remember with a BK system you may have to spend some time not only tweaking the unit settings but your system sound settings as well. I have a Logitech Z5500 5.1 system, so my BK feeds off the sub/center output. Not sure if that configuration gives me an advantage.

As for the BK in general I agree with him above once its part of your gear you never want to fly without it. My first BK amp stopped working and I felt like I was missing a big part of my simpit without it. When I replaced the first system I kept the BK shaker unit and mounted it on my sofa with the new one in my simpit. Using it for movies is something else, granted its used with a proper 5.1 surround sound system and 5.1 soundtracks.

Hi Werner

Flying IL2 and FSX .
I am with Hitch.H.F , what he wrote.

kind regards

Boandl

Well thanks for the input. Now I want two BK's. On for my simpit and another for watching moves. lol.

Luckily for me my simpit and home theater are in the same room! But yeah you can imagine the effect you get from watching say Saving Private Ryan or a similar war movie! It adds so much for dramatic effect, the scene in Moria in the Lord of the Rings where the Balrog is chasing them is pretty neat with a BK!

There's some good stuff on this site about transducers, including some diagrams on how to build your own:

http://www.simprojects.nl/transducers.htm

I have been toying with this idea:

2 Buttkicker LFE units bolted onto left and right side of a platform. The platform is essentially a wooden baord that is big enough to hold the gaming seat, and is vibration isolated from the floor using dampeners.
The design goal is to feel the "thump" of weapon release, among other effects. Even better if the vibration effect is "stereo", such that I can feel if the weapon is coming off from the left wing or right wing.

Of course, the "stereo" vibration effects should work well with movies too. Of course, the pair of transducers will have to be driven by a stereo amp. I got most of these ideas from the avsforums.

Any thoughts?

I like the idea but the problem is that the BK uses the the bass/center chanel and not the stereo side channels as input.
I don't know if a simple stereo output will give different bass output.
If we can have a 5.2 instead of 5.1 stereosystem, that would be awesome.

In general I think it's hard to tell from from where a low frequency sound is comming from, especially when it's going through an airframe.
One system that might produce this effect is d-box, but that's another league when it comes to money.
I uses a special code imbedded in the game/movie that can rock your chair and give vibrations just like the buttkicker.
And as it uses 3 points for the feedback so it should be able to reproduce it on only one side, but it's depending on the coding.

This thread almost makes me want to dig my BK out of the basement but I actually stopped using it because the amp (fan) for it is so loud!

I don't fly without my BK anymore. And for movies its great, for a reason I forgot to mention. When your wife and kid are sleeping but you want to crank up some bass, they don't hear it. It's a weird feeling when you feel all this bass (and hear it too) but stand up from the couch and it disappears. Pretty awesome effect!

That's easily fixed.
Open it up and just replace those pesky fans with a better/quieter one.
I actually mounted an akasa 40mm at the heatsink, then drilled a 80mm hole on top and mounted a 80mm fan there on the outside the spool.
Took me 30 min and the amp was really quiet after that.

Ok it finally broke for me, but I actually think it would have broken even sooner with the original fans.
These version 1 has a bad habit of toasting some of the resistors.
It's easy to replace if you have the parts available.
But then again... version 2 is fanless and much improved, so I will eventually go for that.

Yeah that happened to my first unit the second version IS much better and it's cooler looking (actually simpler). The new version doesn't have a space age shell around it just a black box looking more at home with my PC/AV equipment.

I had thought about changing the fans but when I moved my office from the basement to where it is now, I just never got back around to it but I think I will. The BK really adds to the immersion and I also used to use a FFB headset at the same time. Talk about really taking you there! It's pretty amazing and sometimes even too much - kind of like getting kicked in the head and in the @ss at the same time.

Dangit, now I am making a trip to the basement!

Yeah I was really impressed the first time I used the BK with Il2 and flak/MG fire. I was like "did I just get laid?"!

It really lends itself to prop sims with the rumble of engines and and mounted machine guns/cannons.

Sounds like something I should have. Can anyone recommend the specific Buttkicker system they have for their simpit?
Thanks.

When I bought mine, it was called the Buttkicker Gamer. This was several years ago. I haven't looked but I'd imagine the name is the same. I think I paid $150.00.

I just brought all the parts up from the basement. First order of buisness is to break out the Dremel and saw a hole for either a 90mm or maybe a 120mm fan and remove that noisey little #%&*$# they put in. The fan noise is the only reason I stopped using it. Was not an issue when using headphones, but I rarely game with headphones anymore.

There is a new version out (I have this one):

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gaming/index.htm

The original version had the same shaker unit and I have that one mounted on my sofa with the new one mounted on my simpit to a pc. of galv. pipe threaded to a floor flange.

Hitch, think it is even worthwhile cutting the holes for new fans? I'm getting the impression that the older amp model I have may be flawed and will die anyway. I have read quite a few stories in the past but mine has never done anything weird. It's just noisey because of the fan.

No need for making new holes if you don't want to.
Just replace it with new 40mm fans any you will notice the differance.
This will take you 15 min to replace.
Just make sure you use some low noise fans.
I used these:
http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=p...ype_sub=Classic Black&model=DFS401012M

Is the loud fan noise still a problem with the latest BK Gamer 2? Also, I get the impression that most of you using it for flight sims are flying prop planes? Anyone using BK in jets, especial Jane's F18? The sound of engines and flight while in the cockpit in jf18 is so low that I'm worried that I won't feel any sensation from the BK.

Werner

BK gamer 2 is fanless, so it's totally quiet. Lockon is really good. You feel the afterburner kick in distinctly and don't ask me about the gatling. It's roar feels so good.

What they said about Jets! A10 is all smiles........ have no idea about Janes F18.

As for the fan in the older model its up to you, but with the new version its not an issue. I never knew they had issues until mine gave up, BK was going to replace it but I fell out of contact with them and eventually purchased the new version.

You may have to mod some F18 files to get the sound the way you like (not sure this is possible). BK wasn't a gaming product when that sim came out. FC2, DCS series, Rise of Flight, Il2 all work great with it as well as a number of racing sims and FPS's.

EDIT: I remember reading that this is NOT compatible with USB headsets. I have a USB headset though, and it works in my config. The difference is that I have an X-fi sound card with a 5.1 system. I only use my USB headset for voice comms. That said I only get to speak and listen to others thru the headset all other sound ouputs from my speakers. IF you use a USB headset for sound the BK is designed for analog hook-up and is not compatible with USB sound.

I just purchased a Logitech G930 USB Wireless Surround Headset and the Buttkicker Gamer 2 today. It looks to be feasible to have a USB sound device providing primary audio and an analog output feeding Buttkicker simultaneously. I believe they should be inter-operable, with the possibility of being a few milliseconds out of synch (which shouldn't matter much in this type of application).


I've done a good bit of research today, and although windows does not natively support a single sound source outputting to two separate soundcards (the USB Headset is treated as its own dac soundcard) there's a utility called Virtual Audio Cable which used in conjunction with Audio Repeater should provide the solution to this problem.

Virtual Audio Cable 4 Download


I've seen the utility mentioned in a few places, but the most detailed description on how to implement it can be found in the following forum:

Cjuniorfox's post on Lockergnome

I've got my fingers crossed that this setup will work properly.

BTW, @HitchHikingFlatlander, your DCS group looks pretty cool. Is there a sticky on the recommended hardware for a newbie to run BH? I recently picked up a Thrustmaster T-16000M 16K for HAWX that I hope fits the bill.

I just brought my BK from the basement and plugged it in and for some reason the fan doesn't sound near as loud as I remember it from before. This may be due to my basement being unfinished,concrete walls and hard tile floor. I'm going to go ahead and hook it up as is. Also, because of how I have my PC and desk arranged now, I can locate it towards the front of my desk, so the fan issue should be no problem at all.

As for Janes F18, I don't think I ever tried it with that one but you can adjust the input sensitivity, so as long as you can get any amount of bass out of the sim, I'm sure the BK can adjust to react to it. The only thing though, when you do something that really hits a low note, you will be tossed out of your chair, lol!

Seriously, you will want to make sure everything on your chair is as tight and rattle-free as possible because the BK will shake the crap out of it. I think the product was actually designed and intended for drummers. A drummer would attach it to his throne and be able to have some feedback in a stage environment where the sound levels can get too loud for him to hear the bass drum. I actually had to duct tape some moving parts on my chair to stop the rattling.

Glad the OP brought this thread up because now I'm missing my BK :-)


edit:

All hooked up and the fan actually is just as loud as I remember it, but man, I now realize how much I missed feeling IL-2 guns! I'll be doing something about the fan noise but in the meantime, enjoying this because it really does add. I also fired up COD Black OPS for a sec and shooting, or getting shot, is a little more real feeling :-)

The BK stays!

Hey Wiz,

I have been using the BK for a couple of years now. It's pretty good. I don't really miss it that much when I forget to turn the amplifier on. It's not like Track IR -- I absolutley will not fly without Track IR. However, the BK gamer does add an additional immersion factor. For the last several months, I've been flying the VRS F/A-18E mostly doing carrier ops. The BK is great for feeling the gear retract/extend, you can feel the tires on the runway. When the tires hit the pavement on landing (not carrier landing) you really feel like you've just dropped down onto a hard surface. You can feel the flaps extend, the afterburner, ect. Basically, anything that is producing low frequencies.

I've spent a lot of time in the A-10C beta too. Firing the Gun is a treat with the BK.
So far, my favorite is the cannon in the Black Shark.

If you had to choose between the Track IR and the BK, I'd definately go with the Track IR. If, however, you can have both, then definatly pick up the BK.

Android Ace thanks for the info on USB set-ups.

As for DCS-Mercs and controllers, it's entirely up to you what you'd like to fly with, I have a full blown generic simpit that I fly with a X52 HOTAS, Saitek Aviator (converted into a collective control), rudder pedals, TIR4 and a couple custom switch panels. It's really a personal preference though, you don't need all that stuff to have fun. As far as PC hardware is concerned you can run the game at low on a pretty low end PC, I had an AMD Athalon, 2gigs ram, X1950 graphics when it first came out and I'd say the sim ran on medium.

My current system is C2D 8400 @ 2.9ghz, 4 gig ram and ATI 4870 1 gig. The main deal with BS (or Sims in general) is that they feed off ram and processor speed more the GFX, but you should still have a decent GFX card. Post your PC config and we could tell you what its capable of.

In any case DCS Mercs are a fun bunch to fly with, we take things seriously but NOT TOO seriously, and some of the guys are really knowledgeable.

Luckily I don't have to choose. I got Track IR at Christmas. And my new Thrustmaster MFD's arrived this week. Now if I only had time to try them out! So I think I'm convinced to get the BK Gamer 2. Can anyone recommend a good source for shipment to Canada? It looks like buying it direct from the ButtKicker store might be the way to go. It's on sale for pre-order.

Werner

I believe they have them on Amazon as well. Not sure if they're cheaper though.

They have been on back order at Amazon.com for some time now and they're $150. And Amazon.ca doesn't even sell them. Fortunately I have a connection in the US for a shipping address as Amazon.com will not ship to Canada.

You may want to look at the FSPilot Store:
FS Pilot Store - Buttkicker

That may not bee the lowest price around but I think it said it was in stock. Good luck on the install when you get one!
Regards,
Derek

Well I just pre-ordered my bk gamer 2 from Butt Kicker's web store. They had it on sale for $130 and it is supposed to ship early Feb. Even shipping was free (to a New York address).

What sound/subwoofer settings are you using to get it to work with RoF? So far, in RoF, I can't get the BK to pick up any sound except engines in external view.

Well I got my BK and I have to say I'm impressed. I followed the recommendations for setting up the sound settings on my computer and it's working awesome. In Jane's F18, I get the slightest vibration in normal flight. In afterburner there is a definite increase that feels proportionately right. When the gear go up or down, there is a very satisfying thump. But the best was firing the gun. Wow! This will be a great addition to the sim pit when I get that far. Also, I noticed the amp is whisper quiet. I can't hear anything over the existing noise from the game and the fans running in the cpu. Thanks everyone who gave their two cents. I'm glad I bought this device.

Wizard

I wonder if any of you cn help me, I got my BK2 gamer today, and set it up, NO matter what I do, I cant get any output from it, or even the the green signal light to come on, Ive checked my sound settings and it is setup for 5.1 and my normal bass unit works fine. Im not sure if its because im only using a MB sound chip, Asus M4A79XTD EVO, and windows 7 64.

Ive checked the leads several times and all seems to be in the right place, but I am stumped. the MB is outputting Bass as my normal sub is working fine, Its just the BK2 thats not doing a thing.

Is putting in a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Worth a try??

Cowboy10uk

You shouldn't need to swap audio cards Cowboy, its almost impossible for me to think of whats wrong in your set up without looking at it but I sure its a simple set up issue. Do you have an iPod (or any other portable device) you can plug into it just to check that it is indeed working? I'm guessing you have some issue with how your wires are plugged in, if you're running a typical 5.1/Three analog wire set up you want the wire for center/sub the other two are front & rear respectively. Like I said it's very hard to guess without being in your home. But if you can test it with a portable device at least you can tell if it's working or not.

Yep Ive tried with my Ipod, again still nothing. I have a feeling the amp maybe dead on arrival, I have a power light on yet I have no signal or clip light what so ever. I have great bass coming out of my sub, but nothing whatever coming from the BK. Rather frustrating to say the least.

Man I hate to think its DOA but it does happen. You might try contacting BK they have pretty good support (or used to). I had a bad amp on my BK first gen unit a fw years back and they were going to replace it but life got busy for me and I never followed up. When that happened I'd had the unit for almost three years and it was well out of warranty. Hope you can figure out something or get a replacement. It should pick up a portable device like an ipod given theirs only one cable to mess with. Good luck with your adventure, I know how it sucks when things don't work as planned.

Cheers mate, have sent them an email so hopefully will hear back from them soon, It does sound like it may be DOA, really cant think what else it could be, especally as it wont even pick up the ipod. Darn thing, ah well whats a few more days to what ive waited to get one. Will let you know what happens

Cowboy10uk

Well after spending all day and most of the evening on the issue, I finally had a eurika moment about 20 mins ago, The one thing I hadnt tried changing was the wires themselves, Went downstairs and took a spare wire off my subwoover which I use to plug my ipod into. BINGO, she now works, Just got to try and get the best audio settings for her, As wife is now complaining U can feel it outside and everything in the house is shaking, and thats with the intensity on Low, I can feel my engines although it feels more like the whole chair is vibrating and my guns, which in DCS A10 is bloody stunning. Sadly I cant feel the subtle bumps of bombs being released and my Gear, which I hoped to. Anyone got any ideas of the best audio levels to set up, Im guessing I do these in my Audio menu rather than on the BK amp itself.

Cowboy10uk

If you are good with sound editing, it's "easy" to change the pitch of a sound like the thump from releasing bombs.
The sound does not need to be louder, just a change in pitch so the bass reacts.
I did that for the A10 in fc1.12....or rather I got help from a guy in the forum to fix it for me.

Glad you got it working, as Cona mentioned there are ways to edit sound files to your liking. There are some smart people that know some of those tricks at the ED forums, might be a good place to start.

Yep I think so, must say just the very quick mess around ive had with it, is great, Cant wait till I get this setup right. Time to look for some new sound files I think

Cowboy10uk

Be careful with that thing! Have you ever seen the movie Howard Stern: Private Parts? Might need to try a particular scene from that lol!

EDIT: My mind is clearly in the gutter but hey....................