Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#3184025 - 01/20/11 02:35 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Well the crap yaw rate and low rotor RPM are both down to too much PC power, I believe. I've tried slowing the CPU down with Turbo but in this day-and-age of multi-core processors - it just doesn't work anymore. And the trusted dgVoodoo 'vsync' fix is as good as dead, I believe all that does now is prevent AI units from going at like 100mph but the player chopper is still affected.

And of course, all those slow-down and limiter programs were written for Win95/98, and the Win7 architecture is totally different so I don't even know if those old progs even change what they're supposed to anymore!

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3184510 - 01/20/11 11:10 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: Flyboy]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
AV8R Offline
Senior Member
AV8R  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
Southern California USA

I could say something cheeky about staying on my "broken Vista or WinXP" but I wont hit a guy when hes autorotating down.
duh

But there are good reasons to keeping an older system our dual boot configuration for retro-sim purposes.

Now even I the great and powerful Oz has seen this egregious power stall situation.
What I believe the problem is, has to do with the rate of change of the throttle inputs changes.
To reduce this from happening, I now make all my throttle changes SLOWLY versus ramming the collective/throttle
forward or back quickly as one does with most other sims. When I slowly make the throttle adjustments, I dont
see this problem much if at all.

THis may or may not be a realism aspect in the flight model, then amplified with today's faster systems and OS.
I do know this, that in real life, you are more careful with engine RPM changes whether it be aircraft or ground vehicles
that have huge amounts of horsey power and have the torque to break things or even flip it over. So its not a bad habit
to get used to.

I remember hearing of this guy that spent a couple million dollars restoring a WW2 P51 mustang. When he went out for his
first test flight on it, he hit the throttle to the firewall as he was lifting off the tarmac. THe Pony responded by
flipping over on its back and crashing. The owner/pilot did not survive.

Try minute throttle change or very smooth and slow changes next time. See if that doesnt help things. IT did for me.
AS for the Yaw rate changes, I think theres a way to tweak those in the INI files for LB2. Also, you might look at what
you have set up for your stick profile, if it has a customizable Pitch/Roll/Yaw/Thottle/Rudder feature like a Cougar.


AV8R
#3184871 - 01/21/11 01:29 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
AV8R - Well you see I don't use my joystick throttle because it's in an inconvenient place (right behind the stick) and have forever used the keyboard for throttle. I never 'skip' the throttle by say, having it on 90% collective then hitting the 4 key to take it directly down to around 40%. I always use the 'up' and 'down' throttle keys so as to take me to my desired collective percentage through all the settings in-between. If I made any more minor changes, I'd be forever lowering/raising it.

I believe the yaw rate changes that you mention have been discussed here before and are in fact only for the 3D virtual cockpit view slew rate, nothing to do with the flight model. It also just wouldn't make sense to be able to customize the yaw when the rest of the flight model is hard-coded. And my joystick is a Logitech Attack3 - just USB plug-and-play with no separate software to configure the axis - just Windows Control Panel calibration.

And just a side note to anyone who uses Daemon-Tools, I highly recommend the latest Lite version, it does away with those fiddly taskbar menus and now opens as a proper program in a window. Much easier to add/remove virtual drives, manage and mount/unmount disc images.

#3185024 - 01/21/11 04:02 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: Flyboy]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
AV8R Offline
Senior Member
AV8R  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
Southern California USA
Flyboy,

Youre right, I dont throttle up/down like you do.
And I dont have an unflyable problem on my: WinXP or Vista, single or dual or quad2core systems, using a MS-SWFFB2Pro or TM-Cougar.
Maybe its a good idea to post exactly what you have so that others might be able to help or so we know what doesnt work.
Sorry to hear that your situation is hampering your ability to enjoy this sim.

copter


AV8R
#3185062 - 01/21/11 04:38 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,311
Recluse Offline
Mediocrity Above All!
Recluse  Offline
Mediocrity Above All!
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,311
Randolph, NJ
Well, CPU power definitely plays a role in the LOW ROTOR RPM thing, but the YAW rate is what confuses me. I think I have a faster system than you (2.4 GHz Dual Core) and my Yaw is fine..as is AV8R's in VISTA and XP..so I think the YAW culprit is Windows 7 somehow. Not sure how, unless it is how it deals with DirectPlay components.

There were a bunch of issues with Janes F/A-18 with XP vs. The Windows 9X series, some DirectX related, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibility.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3185115 - 01/21/11 05:39 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Well if you think it will be any help, AV8R...

Laptop:
* 2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
* 4GB DDR2 RAM
* 512 MB ATI Radeon HD3670 (dedicated)
* Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit (started with Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit, LB2's yaw was the same then, as far as I remember)
* DirectX 11
* Logitech Attack3 USB Joystick (no custom software)

LB2:
* Installed using Daemon-Tools method
* My Windows Vista/7 Fix (pre-installed patch and DDU, CA.INI fix)
* 3DFX mode using dgVoodoo 1.50 Beta (setup more or less as... see below)
- http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/dgsetup.jpg
- http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/dgsetup2.jpg
* Phoenix's Last Fix (for stability)

However, as far as I can recall even on my old XP laptop I was starting to see degraded yaw rates. Here are the specs for that (don't own this anymore):

Laptop:
* Intel Pentium 4 processor 2.80GHz
* 512 MB DDR RAM
* 64Mb ATI Radeon IGP 345M Chipset (integrated)
* Windows XP Home Edition (before 64-bit came out, so it was 32-bit)
* DirectX 9.0c?

LB2:
* Installed using Daemon-Tools method
* Patch 2.09, DDU, modified CA.INI
* 3DFX mode using dgVoodoo 1.50 Beta (setup more or less as... see below)
- http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/dgsetup.jpg
- http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/dgsetup2.jpg

Note: Being single-core and the old architecture of XP, CPU limiter programs did achieve much more success here than on my current spec. I never even complain about the rockets as I always use MPSM anyhow, so they don't need to 'hit' as such, therefore I couldn't possibly comment on varying rocket performance across different specs.

So what, hotshot, you think you can suggest something I haven't already tried and tested? Hey, hey? I think all that SoCal surf punk has gone to your head! wink

#3185520 - 01/22/11 12:47 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
AV8R Offline
Senior Member
AV8R  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
Southern California USA

sure, im in customer support, ill start a thread for you.


AV8R
#3185528 - 01/22/11 12:58 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Originally Posted By: AV8R
sure, im in customer support, ill start a thread for you.


Yeah well the subject on customer support which you offer has nothing to do with computers or aircraft! wink

*sarcasm turned up a notch*

#3186270 - 01/23/11 02:17 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
OleGreyGhost Offline
Junior Member
OleGreyGhost  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
PA, USA
Flyboy,

After reading your post about the yaw problem, you reminded me of my situation with LB2.

I think the problem might be:

Quote:
And my joystick is a Logitech Attack3 - just USB plug-and-play with no separate software to configure the axis - just Windows Control Panel calibration.



I have two Logitech joysticks, (Force 3D pro & Flight force), both with force feedback. I used the flight force for testing on the laptop under Vista, it had a bad yaw problem with or without the Logitech software. No amount of windows calibration would correct the problem.

On my P3 lan, {XP Pro sp3 (32 bit)} one machine has the Force 3D pro (yaws badly, won't hover in place) and the other machine uses an M$ sidewinder force feedback (rock solid control). I can even hover in place w/o using hover hold. Both my logitechs' are USB. The M$ is attached to the gameport.

Just a thought. Try a different joystick. Hope this helps...

Sincerely, OleGreyGhost


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3186303 - 01/23/11 03:05 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
OleGreyGhost - hello and thanks for your input. The only problem is, the joystick doesn't affect the yaw - at least it shouldn't. I don't use the joystick to yaw, I use keyboard keys. I think with modern joysticks having a USB connection, that might be the problem with the guns not firing when you 'pull the trigger' though. Unfortunately, as I have a modern Windows 7 laptop - I have no Gameport to try out. Back in the days of a desktop PC and Windows 98, I used to fly LB2 with a replica F-15 joystick and it worked like a charm!

#3186344 - 01/23/11 04:15 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,555
Eugene Offline
Senior Member
Eugene  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,555
Oregon
AV8R seems right about the need for care in applying or decreasing thrust. My stalls nearly disappear the more of a very light touch I use. The yaw thing though sounds like a local issue on your machine. Your cpu is among the less powerful here and others don't seem to experience the difficulty you describe. The suggestion to change sticks certainly cannot hurt and would eliminate one possible cause. I am sorry you are having these difficulties as you flew well enough and were effective despite those issues. Curing the yaw would go a long way towards increasing your enjoyment.


One other thought would be do a test with no stick just to observe the yaw behavior. Couldn't hurt.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3186714 - 01/23/11 06:15 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: Eugene]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Originally Posted By: Eugene
AV8R seems right about the need for care in applying or decreasing thrust. My stalls nearly disappear the more of a very light touch I use.


Well AV8R may be right about the collective, but not in my case. What do I have to do, lower or raise the collective at 1% increments!?

Originally Posted By: Eugene
The yaw thing though sounds like a local issue on your machine. Your cpu is among the less powerful here and others don't seem to experience the difficulty you describe. The suggestion to change sticks certainly cannot hurt and would eliminate one possible cause.


Bear in mind though that not many people here also have 4Gb RAM, 512Mb graphics AND Windows 7, so the CPU capacity alone, I feel, is not an issue. Windows 7 does make better use of the processor than XP or Vista, so one could argue that a dual-core 2GHz processor on Win7 is as effective as a dual-core 3GHz processor on WinXP.

Originally Posted By: Eugene
I am sorry you are having these difficulties as you flew well enough and were effective despite those issues. Curing the yaw would go a long way towards increasing your enjoyment.


I flew 'well enough' and was 'effective'? You are too kind, my friend. The performance I put on the other night was anything but satisfactory - at least for me. And I only had to take out a couple ZSUs and some bunkers - which, in case it has escaped your attention - you or Recluse decided to finish off with Hellfire as it was taking me so long to yaw towards the bunkers again after a lower rotor RPM issue. This low rotor RPM and yaw are both hand-in-hand issues for me, as when I suffer low rotor RPM the chopper drops and twists to the right. When I do finally recover from the descent, I then have to use the yaw to point to the direction I was facing! So it's not even as if I can quickly recover from the low rotor RPM. This is what happened to me at the bunkers - when someone decided to get kills on my targets!

Originally Posted By: Eugene
One other thought would be do a test with no stick just to observe the yaw behavior. Couldn't hurt.


Don't you think I haven't thought of that!? It makes no difference at all. The only time the yaw works for me is when there are many objects and effects on-screen. So when an entire tank column is laid to waste and I am only 100ft away and facing all the smoke - then I may get more yaw movement. This leads me to believe that it is the framerate which has a major effect on the yaw, as when I lag it up, my yaw starts working! I know I technically shouldn't be able to 'lag' up a 13-year-old game on a one-year-old computer, so I'm guessing I'm just pushing the game engine limits and not the computer limits!

EDIT: Yeah I think the framerate does have something to do with the yaw, as I recall one guy who posted here who was also having similar yaw issues (I think it was yaw) and he said that he made it work by having FRAPS running AND recording every time he did a mission so as to lag up his game! Then afterwards he simply deleted the unwanted video files. I do advise against this method though, as you'd need a very BIG hard drive to record those longer LB2 missions!

#3187237 - 01/24/11 06:30 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,555
Eugene Offline
Senior Member
Eugene  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,555
Oregon
AHHHHHHHHH! Flyboy, you have infected me with the yaw virus!!! Spent some time with Neph tonight getting his LB2 install up and running (another story - he is getting a game freeze after a while, in Win7 64 bit; has your Win7 fix, but has not put in +G's LB2 compat fix little file). We got connected using good old Hamachi, but I see mt ohave inherited a steady and annoying yaw + slide to the left. Have to take some time and check some setting, with any luck it will minimize or disappear.

Re collective - yes, it does appear that very gentle input minimizes the rotor rpm low intrusions.

Accepting that efficiency of Win 7 increases your much lower GHz CPU to equal Recluse' or mine...still means that your major issues with yaw are not too likely related to cpu speed, as we don't have them, or at least I didn't until your insidious winging ceaseless moaning and complaining disturbed The Force and infected my machine! biggrin But even so, tonight I didn't have anything like the severity you unfortunately experience. What happened when you diabled one of your cores? And ran the turbo/slow down utility?

I am sorry you have these troubles, Flyboy. When it runs normally, LB2 is still a fine sim and we enjoyed flying with you.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3187342 - 01/24/11 01:01 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Eugene - The Nephilim will want Phoenix's Last Fix (at my site on the 'Setup/Tweaks' page), NOT +G's - that one is now outdated.

Regarding your 'slide to the left' issue, someone else on here had a similar problem and got it fixed by re-calibrating their joystick before playing LB2. This is also a fairly regular little niggle that I have to overcome - but my problem is that I nose-dive when I leave the stick centered instead of simple sliding left!

I made a video last night to show you exactly how bad my yaw is. Note that it is somewhat better than usual BECAUSE I had FRAPS running and recording - most of the time the yaw is almost non-existent! Also note the 'broken 2D cockpit view', which I have now confirmed is the same for the Kiowa and Black Hawk. I did also try and get a video of my low rotor RPM issues, but probably because of FRAPS, it wasn't too bad! smile

When I disabled a core and used Turbo, I saw little or no difference to what you see in the video below (in the the video I am actually running at full CPU power with no cores disabled and no Turbo running). The only difference was you could clearly hear my computer fan having a heart-attack just trying to run LB2 with almost no CPU power available!



P.S. Sorry to turn this thread into a troubleshooting one for me, AV8R. It's just how the topic has evolved!

#3187849 - 01/24/11 08:43 PM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
AV8R Offline
Senior Member
AV8R  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,536
Southern California USA
Regarding taking over the thread,
thats what the 3 Amigos do best... help out.

Regarding the incomplete 2D cockpit artwork,
I see from the God Save the Queen thread that youve figured out a difference between DX7 and 9
regarding this. Me thinks that there's a graphics driver, desktop graphics application setting, or wrapper
configuration that needs tweaking. Again, it might be Win7 related. See the other thread for more details.

Regarding the Yaw problem,
still think its Win7 and its DirectX effects back into LB2 and maybe the wrapper.
If it happens when you use a joystick or even just keyboard; then I doubt its joystick induced.

Regarding the throttle control,
Nice to see you agree with Eugene and Recluse wink

If retro-simming is worth while for you, then perhaps investing in an old WinXP system might help out
or just set up your current system for a dual-boot for Win7 and WinXP. Vista only if you have it already.
Being that WinXP is closer to the time these sims were developed as well as the older directX7.

Now if someone with Win7 pipes up with how they got LB2 running, and details their rig;
then maybe a dual boot would be unnecessary. Until then, Ive yet to hear of LB2 working on Win7
as it does for WinXP and Vista.

Good luck with it.



Eugene,
Since you were infected by the dark side and now have some Yaw problems you didnt while with me...
I suggest you come back to the light side (right side) and see how the world makes more sense. wink
It does sound like a calibration issue. Calibrate to the Right.


AV8R
#3216673 - 02/24/11 01:07 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Lorien Offline
Junior Member
Lorien  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
GA, USA
Flyboy...I noticed you said you were using DGVoodoo ver 1.5. Have you tried downgrading to ver 1.4? This fixed the corrupted cockpit display for me.


Intel Core2 Quad CPU @ 2.66
6 GB RAM
VISTA (64-bit)SP2
ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
Creative SB X-FI
Saitek X-45
#3216694 - 02/24/11 01:33 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: Lorien]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
Flyboy Offline
Senior Member
Flyboy  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,363
England, UK
Originally Posted By: Lorien
Flyboy...I noticed you said you were using DGVoodoo ver 1.5. Have you tried downgrading to ver 1.4? This fixed the corrupted cockpit display for me.


No not yet. I don't know if you've noticed or if it even affects you, but dgVoodoo v1.40 makes the clouds slightly jumpy - at least in the 3D cockpit view!

#3216734 - 02/24/11 02:40 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Lorien Offline
Junior Member
Lorien  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
GA, USA
I had noticed that but as I'm not looking at the clouds too much(more concerned about the ground smile ), but am looking at my cockpit, I find it's an acceptable tradeoff


Intel Core2 Quad CPU @ 2.66
6 GB RAM
VISTA (64-bit)SP2
ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
Creative SB X-FI
Saitek X-45
#3223001 - 03/03/11 04:55 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Blacbraun Offline
Junior Member
Blacbraun  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Hey thanks to FB I think my LB2 setup is finally ready for prime time. I'd be up for Multiplayer too. Anyone interested and who uses yahoo msgr feel free to let me know. blacbraun@yahoo.com

#3223009 - 03/03/11 05:16 AM Re: LB2 MP: The 3 Amigos ride again [Re: AV8R]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Blacbraun Offline
Junior Member
Blacbraun  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 16
By the way, reading more info on here about YAW issues. I used to have really slow YAW on my old machine which was a P133 and I was using Win98. If it's the same issue I don't think it has to do with speed of computer. The rotor RPM is likely due to speed though.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Any Simpits in Canberra?
by WildCoyote. 07/23/19 02:10 PM
Chris Kraft, Apollo Flight Director, was 95
by F4UDash4. 07/23/19 10:20 AM
Small Sim Sale on GoG
by Rick_Rawlings. 07/23/19 04:19 AM
CRPGs
by DBond. 07/22/19 03:19 PM
Well Godzilla KOTM didn't do so well:
by NickM. 07/22/19 01:27 PM
New scam
by KraziKanuK. 07/22/19 06:25 AM
Flight yoke question
by SpongeBob55. 07/21/19 09:17 PM
When Not To Use The Video Chat Cat Filter
by Arthonon. 07/21/19 08:28 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0