Hi to all I'm new to this board and this is my first post, I was a huge fan of falcon 4.0 loooooooooong ago and i was on the verge of building a fully fledged cockpit but i never finished it and in the meantime technology changed to USB, my project was based on a TM F16 FLCS when the Cougar came out it was really to expensive and my budget was already depleted so i tried a Saitek but it was imprecise to a point that instead of finishing the cockpit I gave up flying, all my "wannabe fighter pilot" stuff just rested in the basement until last month.

This Christmas i bought Tom Clancy’s hawx2 out of curiosity, actually the game is more akin to sega's Afterburner than to simulator but i had fun with it and my X45 was good enough (but still far from being serious stuff) to nail some enemies in dogfight but I still wanted something better i saw the Logitech G940 that looked good to me but I’m not fan of FF technology, Saitek x65 and TM Warthog were tempting but I imagined the look that my wife would have given to me when the thing was delivered home.
I was thinking about the stuff abandoned in my basement and I realized that I already owned a warthog (sort of) I just needed a brain for it . The BU0836A that I found surfing the grid while looking for an interface for my MAME cab came up in my mind then I yelled "IT COULD WORK!" ans started thinking about free falcon/open falcon and DCS a10
Looking for information I found this site. Most of the thing I’m doing have been already done but I would like to try to improve the one that I already understood and I also need some feedback about my ideas and I need some help as well.

So after this long premise I’m introducing my project.


I have a Suncom HOTAS set and a TM f16 FLCS and TQS so I’m planning to build 2 HOTAS that can exchange the throttle among them , using the SFS with the FLCS will be cool and the next best thing to a TM warthog and, while using the TQS with the Talon I think will be weird, at least I will have 2 complete sets that I can use if I want to play with some friend in local network, thoose HOTAS have to be used on the desk and in the cockpit .
The HOTAS will share the same button number / analog axis number layout (I.E. pinkie will have same button, ANT will have the same axis, HAT 1 will be the same etc) where possible.
Addons to my setup will be.
TM elite rudder pedals will be modified with HALL sensor .
Quickshot masterpilot with shorthened cabling connected to a ps2 ->USB converter as MFD (maybe put in front of some LCD glass cocpit).

F15 talon modification:


1. Getting rid of the PCB and replace with standalone hats and buttons
2. Add dual stage trigger
3. Add paddle switch (f16 style but painted matte red)
4. Two position selectable grip orientation, 0 and 15~20 degree.
5. back and aft capability on the left thumb switch as well as keeping push down capability.
6. Mounting switches/buttons on the base if possible under some "Movie Detonator" style guard to bring the button count up to the FLCS 's one using reamining buttons available on the matrix.
7. A1302 hall sensor Doc Flyer's style mod with an improvement that allows to reverse the magnet polarity and align the center if needed.
8. rebuild the lower part of the base with an industrial aluminum box 3 o 5 mm thickness (painted with high temperature matte black spray) to allow controller card to fit and to hide old button holes.



SFS modifications: (needed for repair damaged part and to keep button count low in order to use it with the FLCS)

1. ANT switch replaced with an f16 style knob and pot.
2. left throttle lever pinkie switch replaced with an f16 paddle switch parallel to the handle side (i broke it, but since i have small pinkie fingers i think will be easier to reach the paddle switch) basically a button but cooler.
3. 3 one of the hat switches on the right throttle lever replaced with a cannibalized playstation analog mini joy.
4. lower part of the base box completely redone (same kind box as the joystick base).
5. Hall sensor mod (need suggestion) .

F16 FLCS modifications:
1. accurate pinkie switch
2. Selectable orientation mod as the Talon
3. hall sensor mod (need suggestion)


TQS modifications
1. “eraser head” replaced with hat switch or mini joystick
2. Hall sensor “BIC pen” mod
3. If “eraser head” won’t be replaced by joystick available pot connections will be used for trimmers.


Thanks to the ones who read all my post so far here is the “I need help “Part:

1. I understood quite well (I hope) how the BIC pen magnet arrangement works for TQS but I have some doubt on what to do on the FLCS, if I understood correctly the A1302 can read the angle of the magnetic field between 0 an 90 degrees since the pot has a throw of 60 degrees should I mount he magnet in some sort of “fake potentiometer” configuration o r directly on the Joystick gimbals axis?
2. Can the Doc flier’s mod be applied to the SFS also (I would like to avoid to build a transmission shaft if possible)
3. Should I extend the “Neck” of the joystick while I m preparing the mod that allows to rotate the handle? If yes what would be the suggested amount?
4. All your comments and suggestions are more than welcome
Thanks in advance to all

Hi Bluedeath,

Love this mods.

Some comments:



The best place to get stand alone HAT - with different covers:

http://www.splash-one-bandit.com/parts.html

Another, probable made by CH - not really cheap:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1114837&k=HAT



If you dont play really old games consider put a independent USB controller inside SFS - cheap DIY Mjoy8/16 is good option.



With independent USB controller inside SFS you can consider make one base Warthog lookalike, due more buttons and axis available.



Ask Splash One Bandit for this, they make a very good one.
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3123525/Searchpage/1/Main/320489/Words/splash+one+bandit/Search/true/Cougar_Paddle_Lever.html#Post3123525


Any is fine, for some games HAT (buttons is more useful) for another's mini-stick (axis).

Mini-stick source: http://yhst-27389313707334.stores.yahoo.net/thumbjoystick.html



Original "Eraserhead" dont use axis (pots) just buttons.



For practical use you are limited to around 40 degrees. So "BIC" assembly is fine to FLCS too.



In original F16FLS pots pots rotate only 35~40 degrees. So put magnet in joystick gimbal axis (or in BIC assembly) is more easy.



Problem with SFS is that your levers travel too much, around 90 degrees, and the original pot have a huge linear travel. I think that DIY HALL assembly (like Doc Fliers) in original pot case exced the usable reading angle (~40 degrees) of these HALL sensor.

Read that Mike Powel (mikesflightdeck.com) say about useful reading angle of HALL sensor here:
http://www.mikesflightdeck.com/old_stuff4.htm

Good luck whit these (big) project, and keep the news coming.

Sokol1

Thanks for the advice i already ordered parts from Spalsh One, I have still some hat switches around that i can use with some adaptation.
As for more buttons Since BU has only 32 + 4 available buttons I'm thinking about adding a separete keyboard encoder for the added buttons the only thing that is stopping me from doing it is that id like to keep cables count low, i'm already using 2 cables: one for analogs and one for buttons between Joy and throttle (with with on emale and one female connection to avoid to invert connection to the joystick base) adding a third encoder would mean a third cable, I'm thinking about hacking a USB hub and put it into the joystick and using the unused cables from one of the others but in afraidd thsi will add noise to the signal.

Im having troulbe with the metal box: aluminum is out of the question so i ha to swit to steel but im afraid this will interfere with hall sensors. Hotas warthog has ha metal base so i hope that this will not be an issue otherwise il use the good old particle board (which i really hope will not be the case)

EDIT only now i realized that you meant that I can use the leftover buttons on the matrix on the trottle base intead than in the joystick one.

Now if I could just find the time to FINISH this thing!

That ěs a cool mod, but i would like to get rid of the pots, But I could use your technique and install some gear to reudce the angle of the rotating magnet assembly to a useful ratio, thanks for this pictures. Is the CH stuff inside the box going to be connected and usable (as keys on the base)?.

I'm going to be using what you see for the HATS/buttons and X and Y axes (mini-joystick) for the left and right throttle. All will be programmable in Control Manager.

Bluedeath,

Look these solution used for place HALL in DIY gimbal, for F16FLCS you can use similar arrange.
Notice that magnet rotation is for short angle.

http://forum.fliegende-schweine.de/showthread.php?tid=102

Sokol1

That leaves what was once the main throttle axis (Z)...planning to convert that two-way rocker into an analog rotary more akin to the real F-15 throttle?

The main throttle's axis, in Control Manager set up as seperate devices, I can pick what axes I want to use for each device. In this case I can pick X for the left engine and Y for the right. Actually, on the Suncom it is a two way switch. BUT, with Control Manager, I can and probably will program the rocker as CM Axes

I've done some research i think i have to add some link to reduce the throttle hall sensor rotation to an arc of 40 degrees as Sokol1 suggested.
I started to work on CAD drawings for the new boxes for joystick and SFS, i tried freecad that is powerful but a little bit ankward, anyhow viewing a 3d model of the box made me ralize that i have to rethink some of my mechaical solutions im going to borrow the TM warthog style by using 3mm thick anodized aluminum panels fixed onto a welded steel frame with hex screws, as for the joystick base I still have to decide if i wanty simply a box with a hole to fith the original upper part of the talon's box or i should try to build it frolm scratch and keep only "saturn ring" and movement part of the thing, im still waiting for the usb card to be delivered so im only wild guessing for time being.

Does someone know the suggested cable leght between copmponents and the BU card?
Can Pots and hall sensord be used together (of course on different axis)?