Just curious about the new stick.

I got my Cougar about 2 years ago for Christmas of 08, and I haven't put a whole lot of hours in it yet, in part because I could not get online IL2 Sturmovik to work with my Vista O/S, so its sitting on standby til BoB:SoW comes out, I mostly did escort carrier landings as I found that fun enough for a sim, but I didn't really have to fight the stick if I kept my trim steady.

The worst thing that happened was my throttle quit working correctly, and would only go up to 84% throttle, making it impossible to take off from an escort carrier, instead of 110%. We had to take it apart, we got rid of all the grease that lubricated the throttle, my friend did some kind of fix to get it to go all the way to 110% and now that the excess grease is cleaned off, it doesnt fall back down to 0% position at all, with the adjustment wheel tightened up all the way.

I know there is a mod for this but my main complaint with the Cougar throttle is it does not move like a real F-16 throttle would, its not smooth and firm, but notchy and loose and would fall back to 0% position easily.

I think the Cougar is better for people who like to modify things, not n00bs like me who just want a plug-n-play Joystick, but I love the quality of it and the cold metal in my hands.

I am curious how the TM Warthog is doing compared to the Cougar, and if its worth the extra $300 or so over an old Cougar joystick? Hows it feel, is the Throttle firm and smooth unlike on the Cougar's?

I actually enjoy the gameport adapters in the joystick because as my PC sits I have maxed out every USB port with all my flight sim equipment, and would worry about having to free up another USB port, or getting rid of my old Thrustmaster Rudder Control System pedals that came out 17 years ago and also require a gameport adapter.

The Worthog is a beautifull peice of kit.

Two major negatives for me. The throttle doesn't have a rotary on the handls that can be used for trim.
The most negative part is the Spring. Outside of center the Warthog is the smoothest and most realistic feeling joysticks I've ever owned. BUT moving thru center is very CLUNKY which will throw off my shooting accuracy especially with snap shots.

I will probably return the Warthog unless I can figure out a mod that will work. Thrustmaster dropped the ball by not making the spring tension adjustable. Adjusting the spring alittle weaker may have toned down the thru center CLUNK considerably. Maybe a new spring with a weaker initial compression might do the trick, or if the spring is compressed in the casing maybe releiving some of the compression might also help.

As is the stick is very good for ground pounding, Boom & Zoom, but not so much for Turn and Burn. This would be an awesome stick for Bomber Pilots.

Yea, but Im wondering if I should throw out the Cougar and GET the warthog? If I didn't have a flight console, Id probably go for it, but all those additional switches on the throttle base are not needed for my current sim setup.

Oh, what do you mean set your trim? I got the big grey cap on the joystick that sets my rudder and elevator trim perfectly in just seconds, and for aileron trim, I use 2 sides of the black 4way button below the big gray one. The rotary wheel on my Cougar's throttle, Ive never used at all (Perhaps because I do not play jet simulators?). Should I instead set the wheel on the throttle for adjusting my aileron trim rather than the 4way black button?

Is it Forced feedback? Does it have a gameportfor my TM pedals, or should I stick to getting motherboards that have a gameport? Can the Cougar HOTAS be used just as good for ground pounding, boom and zoom, and turn and burn? I mainly do WWII combat simulators, Im waiting on BoB:SoW to come out and then I plan on gettin some use out of my Cougar.

In Il-2 you can set elevator trim to a rotary in the HOTAS Control section. Trim on a rotary is more realistic and easier to adjust, atleast on WW2 sims.

The Warthog is not Force Feedback.
It doesn't have a game port, all connections are USB.

As much as I like many aspects of the Warthog, personally I can't recommend the Warthog at this time, but other will whole heartedly. Its such a beauty.

IMO, the Cougar is better for IL-2: the stick force is lighter so you have a better feel for stick and rudder input (I have a Cougar Evenstrain). My Warthog is perfect for A-10C, however. Beefy controller for a beefy airplane.

As far as your rudder goes, unless you keep your Cougar plugged in you can't use your RCS with the Warthog: it is straight USB so there's no connection for the RCS to plug into.

Don't get me wrong, I adore my Warthog and I wouldn't trade it for anything but it sounds like you and your Cougar are well matched.

Before you do that, do some research on the warthog. Lots of people have been having problems with them, like dead throttles and buttons stop working.

Never were better words uttered on the subject, El Roto.

After testing, programming and flying with a Warthog for 1 month - here's what I know. My "other" joystick is a U2Nxt Modded Cougar - i.e. ball bearings - springs - no center detent - hall sensors for X-Y.

IF you fly PROP SIMS mainly or exclusively AND you have a U2NXT or EVENSTRAIN Cougar mod and are HAPPY WITH THE ACTION - you do not want a Warthog.

- The center detent in the Warthog joystick is as large as the stock Cougar. This was the main reason most of us paid the significant sum to upgrade our systems with U2Nxt or Evenstrain mods.
- The precision and actuation of the joystick is better than the stock Cougar - once past the center detent portion of the stick action.
- The Warthog joystick handle does not work on the Cougar base - even in TARGET - different wiring.
- The Warthog joystick button travel lengths are much longer than the Cougars buttons. Even the S4 tab has longer travel.
- Throttle has one less slider than the Cougar throttle
- Throttle slider is positioned on the base of the throttle - not at your thumb or fingertips. Unless your an Orangutan - you will have to remove your hand from either the throttles or the joystick to actuate this slider.
- TARGET must run constantly - you cannot just upload a profile to the Warthog and "leave it there"
- Script Editor is not like Foxy. Script is at a lower level than Foxy *.tmm/*.tmj commands. USB codes are the rule here. If you love Foxy (I do) - you will be very frustrated with this. It's definitely "unfinished". Hopefully Thrustmaster will create a more mature user interface for programming. If your a Cougar user and hate Foxy - well good luck.

Special note: I fly my mod Cougar stick with the RUBBER BOOT REMOVED. I have much less stick tension and more even action than with the boot. I find this is perfect for me, particularly in Rise of Flight and Il2. In this configuration, the U2Nxt Cougar has significantly less stick tension than the Warthog.

So, those are the downsides....

Upside is that the throttle has a great action - you pick up several hats, switches and buttons. I love the toggle switches and setup for twin engine flight.

So, I've put my Warthog joystick in the corner - and am using my U2Nxt Cougar with the Warthog throttles - programmed through TARGET.

If you have a stock Cougar - Warthog is an improvment.

Please pardon the caps - just wanted to ensure caveats are clear.

S!

Gunny

I agree with much of your comments TX. I've boxed my Warthog up and sending it back from once it came. To bad because I liked much of what the Warthog had to offer.

I've reconnected the G940 for more testing.

The center bump in the TM WH may not be to your liking however it can be argued that it is not unrealistic modern fighters such as F/A-18 in r/l. I provide the following cut and pasted exerpt from a former Navy Hornet pilot referring to the crash of one of the Blue Angels due to suspected GLOC. Note the comments in the second paragraph re the "breakout force" and flying the jet with a nose down trim to allow compensate for the breakout and allow for smoother formation flight.

I don't know who sent this, so I don't know how familiar he is with the Blue
> Angel F/A-18. I did some of the test flights on the modified Hornet to clear it
> for the Blue's use. There is one particular difference in the longitudinal
> control system that would make the airplane go negative G, like it appeared
> to me it did on the video, if the pilot experienced GLOC.

> First, the Blues, and any good formation flyers, always fly with a nose down
> out-of-trim condition. This requires a constant pull force on the stick and
> allows smoother airplane control during close formation flying. By being out
> of trim longitudinally, there is no "break out" force required to initially move
> the stick like there is in a neutral trim condition, so there are no jerky
> movements in a tight formation. >

> Second, unlike the Blue's earlier birds, the Hornet flight control system wont
> "allow" an out-of-trim condition. So we developed a "downspring" to make
> them have to hold the desired pull force on the stick. This downspring is an
> actual spring attached from the lower instrument panel to the forward part
> of the stick. To maintain level flight, you have to keep about a 10 pound pull
> force on the stick.

> The initial writer said at GLOC the G would "ease" immediately. Actually, in
> the Blue's Hornet, it would be an immediate negative G from the stick going
> full forward, and at the altitude they appeared to be, around 7-800 feet, that
> wouldn't give much time for recovery if the pilot ever regained
> consciousness.

> But, as the initial writer also said, we'll have to wait for the accident board
> to
> complete before we know if any of this is actually what happened. I just
> thought I'd throw in a little about the modified Blue Angel Hornet in case
> anyone didn't know.
>
> Spider
>
>
> - -
> CAPT George Webb, USN (Ret.)

Interesting Lobo

Thanks Lobo.

I'm not sure about all the sims that Chivas flies, although I know him to be a great Il2 pilot.

I personally don't find functional departure from R/L F-18 controls a consideration for me - as I don't fly modern jet sims. For us "prop heads", how compatible a stick is with anything modern is not an issue.

The Warthog after all, is a replica A-10 stick which non-Jet/non-A10 simmers must adapt to their uses. No WWI, WWII, Korean or Vietnam era pilot is going to find anything on the shelves which will replicate an exact configuration and even if that were possible - the variety of WW2 aircraft for example, make any "exact" replica unachievable.

S!

Gunny

WH stick fits stock cougar base and.works 100%.

Ive heard it's not quite a fit on uber tho.

Stock and FCC, absolutely fine.

Posted last from my droid. To elaborate a little further....

I have used the Warthog stick handle on both a stock cougar and FCC...and I've been told it works on FSSB as well. I have also been told that it seems to not fit the Uber2NXT properly before. I don't know what the specific problem is. The only problem on a stock/fcc/fssb base is that the "Hat 4 push" function is not available since the Cougar didn't have logic for this. I put a number of hours in flying with the WH stick on other bases over the summer.

The bit about the centering / breakaway is a bit different in a real aircraft. When an a/c is trimmed the controls will hold a more or less constant position until force is applied...but it's really not the same as the mechanical bump. But then, I've only flown a few light a/c, not fighters or even airliners.

Understood! At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference. I just came across those comments re the Blue's and thought I would toss it into this thread for consideration.

Cheers!

Personally i think the Warthog works great with the prop sims. It is dramatically smoother than the X52 pro and the CH fighterstick...I absolutely love it...

Short note/caveat:

All of my comments concerning the Warthog joystick - are based upon comparison to a U2Nxt Cougar without the rubber boot. This probably represents less than 1% of the community, if that.

When compared to other controllers I've used for prop sims (less my U2Nxt Cougar) - it's great. It's certainly a huge improvment over the stock Cougar.

S!

Gunny