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#3160256 - 12/19/10 02:36 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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SPOILERS, do not read if you haven't seen it!

Click to reveal..

I'm still taking it in, but I left feeling a little disappointed. One one hand, this thing has been so long in coming that it might not be able to really live up to expectations, but I just didn't think it was as creative as the original. Clearly set up for a sequel (Dillinger's son on the board, TRON seemed to live after being "magically" redeemed), so maybe this was more of a set up? CLU didn't take the place of the MCP and Dillinger/Sark very well, seemed a little "Hollywood".
It wasn't bad, not saying that, just wasn't as deep as I'd like to have seen. Didn't live up to that first trailer for the movie that was so awesome.

Visual effects were just plain awesome, can't help but love to look at this movie.
Except maybe for "young" Bridges. Smiled too much or something, they could've done better with the expressions and voice sync I thought. Seemed more video game quality than movie quality.

Needed more Boxleitner & TRON too. wink


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#3160318 - 12/19/10 04:36 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Ok, here is my spoiler-free review. I just got back from seeing it in 3D.


I believe this film is suffering a bit from "The Phantom Menace" syndrome. What I mean specifically by that is that the hype and the public expectations for this film were in my opinion overstated. Let's look back at the original Tron and recall what it had and didn't have. While it was revolutionary for 1982 in its distinctive visuals, there really wasn't anything extraordinary with the acting, dialogue or characters. The new Tron film shares these same characteristics but unlike the original film this one had heaps of high expectations and hype and so it makes the new film seem worse by comparison.

This new Tron didn't really elicit any emotion from me but neither did the original Tron. It was great seeing Bruce Boxleitner again but I wish his role had been a bit larger.

And one final observation,

Click to reveal..
I'm sorry but I just dont get how Quorra (a computer program) can somehow end up existing in the flesh after going through the portal. I just dont see how the internal logic of the film could make that plausible.



I give Tron 2.5 out of 4 stars.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 12/19/10 04:37 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3160335 - 12/19/10 05:32 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Quote:
I believe this film is suffering a bit from "The Phantom Menace" syndrome.



Oh come now, if that were the case it'd have got 0 out of 4 stars, having no merit on any grounds and needlessly tearing asunder every tenet of the canon en-route.

But back to Tron.

smile

Not seen it yet, hopefully will see it on the big screen. My expectations are not too high, so I may enjoy it well enough, for the reason that the first one was so damn cool because it was completely unique in its visual style and presentation (with a solid original story). I still get a kick out of watching it.

These days no CGI really stands out, it's bound to be more complex and whizz-bang than the simple lines and light of the original, and complex and whizz-bang has been done to death by everyone else. I can just watch films like Inception now and be completely underwhelmed. Plus, unless you're "The Matrix", there's little more you can do to push the bounds of physical camera-work in action scenes.

Oh, and 3D is just a gimic. It may be here to stay but to me it adds little if anything to my enjoyment of cinema.

Yours, the Grinch

Last edited by AWL_Spinner; 12/19/10 05:36 AM.
#3160343 - 12/19/10 06:04 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Click to reveal..
3D really didn't help this movie. Interesting that they did try to do the Wizard of Oz transition, going from 2D to 3D like that movie did B&W to color, but it just didn't do anything. Really don't think it did much for it and won't be missed on a dvd release.

I do agree about the Phantom Menace syndrome, but at least Phantom had a killer first 15 minutes or so to start off. This movie...kind of started out not liking the son, being on the obnoxious side. With all the advanced fighting, a necessity for these days, you saw no reason for the guy to be able to keep up. TRON should've mopped the floor with him.

With all of the years, and surely scripts, they just could have done better. The original wasn't that cheesy at the time, and I watch it regularly and still enjoy it. We watched today before seeing this one. For 1982, it was still good sci fi, although things happened "conveniently" and quickly. It was still interesting and creative, even if it lacked in a lot of depth. This one lacked depth AND creativity. Funny the Matrix is brought up since I thought of that while seeing the movie. Matrix...awesome. The 2nd Matrix movie not even close. Just repeated a formula.
I didn't hate it by any means, just went into it expecting it to have depth that you should get now that was lacking in 1982. You have no doubt about the style the movie should have, being a sequel, but they should've made up for that lack of surprise with a good, deep story. It wasn't bad, it had the right elements, but they should have done a lot more with it than what seemed like an easy few plot turns.

At least we saw the really big door again. LOL


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#3160417 - 12/19/10 11:30 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Click to reveal..

LOL Raw Kryptonite

I'd forgotten the really big door.

Apparently Kevin Flynns disc had the secret codes to make it possible for digital entities to exist in the real world. Although as said above it's not consistent with the logic for the first movie in which molecules are supposedly suspended in the beam. Bugged the hell out of me but no different I guess from having programs take the form of people that run around.

Bruce had a great reveal, voice from behind a fridge door.

Kinda want to go see it again now.



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#3160474 - 12/19/10 01:56 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Good review Raw. I know that sometimes it is possible to over-analyze a film and we should just sit back and enjoy it for what it is but I'm like you in that I did expect something more especially since the original film came out 28 years ago!

I'll most likely end up buying this on bluray eventually just to add it to my burgeoning sci-fi collection. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3160615 - 12/19/10 05:38 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Click to reveal..
The old MCP would simply appropriate the laser and run it at will. No biggie. None of this mamby pamby "gotta use Flynn's disc" business. LOL

MCP > CLU


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#3160876 - 12/20/10 01:37 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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I didn't go in with any expectations and still got disappointed based purely on the fact that it failed to entertain me. The film making was mediocre, uninspired, that's all.


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#3161141 - 12/20/10 02:23 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: No Name]  
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Originally Posted By: peppergomez
Looks kinda like a kids' movie

I think the biggest drawback to making a movie like this is having it be stuck under the Mouse House Label, it can't be too edgy, can't be too violent, actually it has to be kid friendly.


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#3161145 - 12/20/10 02:26 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: 453Raafspitty]  
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Originally Posted By: 453Raafspitty
I enjoyed it.Story line continued on from the first fairly well.Everything is updated and polished but could have fleshed out a few of the lesser characters more..Maybe a sequel on the cards?It is much less a kids movie then say Transformers 2..


thanks for the info.

Yeah, if you read some of the articles in the original OP you will see that Disney is making a big big big push of Tron onto the public for better or worse!


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#3161160 - 12/20/10 02:40 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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I need to find the original tron lol


Ahh CLOD never in the history of Simming has so much been promised and so little given.

However I want to thank Team Fusion for keeping the Dream Alive.
#3161188 - 12/20/10 03:14 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
I think the biggest drawback to making a movie like this is having it be stuck under the Mouse House Label, it can't be too edgy, can't be too violent, actually it has to be kid friendly.


That's an excellent point. There is also apprehension about making it too edgy and too adult because it would shrink the potential audience. I looked it up online and apparently Tron Legacy had a budget of 170 million.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3161189 - 12/20/10 03:15 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: RAF74_Raptor]  
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Originally Posted By: RAF74_Raptor
I need to find the original tron lol


I have the 25th anniversary 2 dvd set and that one should still be available on Amazon or somewhere else online.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3162168 - 12/21/10 04:07 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
And one final observation,

Click to reveal..
I'm sorry but I just dont get how Quorra (a computer program) can somehow end up existing in the flesh after going through the portal. I just dont see how the internal logic of the film could make that plausible.


Not to delve too deep into geekery, but to answer your question (spoilers follow):

Click to reveal..
The reason Quorra was able to leave the digital world has to do with the fact that she was an ISO (or Isomorphic Algorithm), and not a program.

According to the movie, ISOs were created through a digital version of abiogenesis. That is, they were originally inanimate, but through what Kevin Flynn called "a miracle", developed life on their own.

Kevin Flynn didn't know how this happened - how the ISOs were created or how they developed true life. He just knew that they did. Thus, there were aspects of the ISOs which he did not understand. You can see him admit to this when he's repairing Quorra after the fight at the End of Line Club.

What Kevin Flynn did know, however, was that ISOs were like virtual humans that lived without disease or flaw. Thus, the basic concept that Kevin Flynn sacrificed his life for was that if he and Sam can get "in" to the Grid, Quorra (as an ISO) could get "out". And probably, by getting out, Quorra could better help humanity understand things like aging and illness.

This is all in stark contrast to programs, who were created and programed by users to handle user requests.

Yes, according to TRON lore, programs have developed AI (artificial intelligence). But I would strongly argue that this is only on the ENCOM-based system, like the one that Kevin Flynn hid in the basement of the arcade in 1983.

Remember, in the 1982 TRON, something happened which caused the MCP to move from a normal system management program into a true AI. And it would seem that this shift, perhaps like SKYNET in the Terminator movies, paved the way for the lesser programs under his control to move into the realm of AI also. Honestly, if you removed a program from the ENCOM/MCP system, I'm not entirely sure it would still be "alive" anymore. This is why Kevin needed to start with a copy of that specific system.

CLU2 may be different, however.

Because Kevin Flynn used some of his own data, from his identity disk, to create CLU2, CLU2 is more "alive" than any normal program would be. And it's possible that, like Quorra, he may have been able to get out of the digital world and into the real world. I say may, because even Kevin Flynn didn't really know what would happen if he crossed the portal. He just knew that CLU2 needed to be stopped.

However, even with this, CLU2 is still artificial. He is not alive in the same way that an ISO is - in the same way the Quorra is.

CLU2 and all other programs are only capable of doing what they're programed to do. And within Tron City and the Grid, CLU2 was programed by Kevin Flynn to seek out imperfection and eliminate it. And he did this to a fault, turning on his "master" and ignoring all logic in the pursuit of his programmed mission, just like HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Quorra, on the other hand, can learn and develop on her own. She can make choices, just like a real person can.

So, what would have happened if CLU2 was able to get out through the portal?

I'm not completely sure, and truthfully, it may not be important to the overall arch of the story.

What is important is that CLU2 attempted to take his mission into the real world, and that Kevin Flynn viewed CLU2 as a threat. Thus he needed to be stopped.

I sincerely doubt, however, that CLU2's army would have been able to manifest on the other side the way that Quorra did. CLU2 was doing what he thought he needed to, but as is evident by the ending, he was limited in his understanding of what that meant.

Perhaps leaving through the portal would have enabled CLU2's army to jump systems? Perhaps, they could have become a computer virus?

I think this is very much open to debate.


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#3162176 - 12/21/10 04:13 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Thanks for that post JG1. It was a great read! smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3162184 - 12/21/10 04:23 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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I sense you're not completely convinced. wink


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#3162896 - 12/22/10 06:47 AM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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Interesting reviews by all.

Definite Tron fan here, watched the original several times, enjoyed it.

A big thumbs up from me! Enjoyed it from the intro thru the credits, and will be watching it again. Didn't do 3d, just big screen.

I didn't have much 'deep thought' expectations for this movie, and so probably wasn't disappointed from that perspective. Tron to me is more of an art/CGI piece with some nerdy coolness thrown in, along with some symbolism thrown in for good measure.


THOROUGHLY enjoyed it! Geeks UNITE!


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#3163043 - 12/22/10 02:03 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: SpyDoc]  
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Originally Posted By: SpyDoc

Geeks UNITE!


All hail the users! lol


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3163135 - 12/22/10 03:51 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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very cool! I will be in the theater on Friday afternoon.


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#3164763 - 12/24/10 03:34 PM Re: Tron: Legacy [Re: Patrocles]  
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i just saw it last night. I liked it. The plot was pretty much what I expected.

Click to reveal..
Loved the light cycle battle and the light dunebuggy. I didnt like how TRON was an evil faceless minion for CLU and there was no catalyst to explain his redemption.


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