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#3143740 - 11/24/10 02:17 PM Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication?
SkipperMac Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Hi,
I've been fumbling along for some time with a yoke that I knew had difficulty finding it's natural centre in the longitudinal (push-pull) axis. I've been able to manage it ok with FSX, but have recently started flying DCS Black Shark which seems to want a more accurately calibrated pitch axis. Basically there's a whole inch of travel around the centre position where the yoke can rest - that's one enormous null zone I'd have to program!

What does anyone recommend I lubricate the shaft with so it slides in and out better? And no prizes for condom suggestions!!! I've tried WD40 (on the YOKE!!!) but it hasn't really helped.
pilot
_________________________
SkipperMac
Suffolk, UK
Intel Dual 3.20MHz / 2Gb RAM / NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX+ / Hitachi 280GB & Western Digital 25GB / CHProd Yoke (!!!) & Pedals / FSX with FTX Pacific NorthEast and fps barely in double figures! / DCS: Black Shark almost converting me to vertical flight!

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#3144028 - 11/24/10 09:51 PM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
Joe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 17733
Loc: Bridgewater, NJ
I think the main issue is that you are trying to fly a helicopter with a yoke... CH designed the yoke with this non-self-centering pitch axis to replicate real yoke behavior. It works well for simulation of aircraft that have yoke controls in real life. I've never tried it myself, but you seem to have discovered quite easily that this behavior is no good for helicopter simulation.

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#3144087 - 11/25/10 01:08 AM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
531 Ghost Offline
USMC
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 10858
Loc: Elizabeth City NC
Over time, CH has found that almost any kind of wet lube (silicone-based, petroleum-based, that sort of thing, cause the plastic to swell. I suggest removing the WD40 ASAP.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


For your CH Products programming needs, come on over to: The CH-Hangar
Current System Specs

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#3144163 - 11/25/10 07:47 AM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
SkipperMac Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Thanks for your replies, guys!

Joe - I've been flight siming for over 20 years, and have even logged 21 hours in the real fixed-wing thing, but this is the first time I've ever seen it suggested that the longitudinal axis is NOT designed to self-centre. However, I'm not disputing your knowledge as the internal design of the CH Yoke has very limited self-centering around the centre position. I assumed that this was compounded by the friction of the shaft, but going by what you say, any amount of lub isn't going to change that much as it's not intended to have a strong centring tendency. But surely in the real world (fixed wing) the yoke self-centres because of the airflow over the elevator? IF it doesn't it would mean there was no use for the trim...
And I agree that a yoke is far from the right control for a woppa woppa bird.

531 Ghost - thanks for the warning! I vaguely remember, however, that when I got the yoke there was some soft of lub on the shaft
_________________________
SkipperMac
Suffolk, UK
Intel Dual 3.20MHz / 2Gb RAM / NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX+ / Hitachi 280GB & Western Digital 25GB / CHProd Yoke (!!!) & Pedals / FSX with FTX Pacific NorthEast and fps barely in double figures! / DCS: Black Shark almost converting me to vertical flight!

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#3144191 - 11/25/10 08:56 AM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
531 Ghost Offline
USMC
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 10858
Loc: Elizabeth City NC
The Eclipse Yoke fixed a lot of those problems with self centering and stickyness.

Still, I'd get the WD 40 off ASAP. Try a dry lube.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


For your CH Products programming needs, come on over to: The CH-Hangar
Current System Specs

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#3144262 - 11/25/10 11:09 AM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
Joe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 17733
Loc: Bridgewater, NJ
Originally Posted By: SkipperMac
Joe - I've been flight siming for over 20 years, and have even logged 21 hours in the real fixed-wing thing, but this is the first time I've ever seen it suggested that the longitudinal axis is NOT designed to self-centre. However, I'm not disputing your knowledge as the internal design of the CH Yoke has very limited self-centering around the centre position. I assumed that this was compounded by the friction of the shaft, but going by what you say, any amount of lub isn't going to change that much as it's not intended to have a strong centring tendency.
From the SimHQ review of the CH Eclipse Yoke:

Quote:
The first two analog axes, those on the yoke itself, are rather obvious; they are intended to be used to control aileron and elevator motion (i.e. roll and pitch). The rear of the yoke grips are molded with contours that fit each individual finger. Both axes have centering springs, although only the roll axis returns to the same physical position every time the yoke is released. Steve, a CH Products representative, has explained the pitch axis mechanics in a post at the CH Hangar:

"The Y axis… has a general center area, it does not come back to the same center every time unless moved by hand. This is a design element that was requested a long time ago by users of the Virtual Pilot and derivatives, in response to the fact that those controllers had a center detent for the Y axis and the users felt this was unlike a real aircraft."

"So the Flight Sim Yoke and the Eclipse yokes have general center areas for the Y axis and will not pop back into a detent or specific center unless moved by hand. The center area is approximately an inch and a half of travel, some of which is taken up with the null zone (some times called the "dead zone"), an area of electronic non-response which is adjustable in most sims or through Control Manager."


Straight from the horse's mouth.


Quote:
But surely in the real world (fixed wing) the yoke self-centres because of the airflow over the elevator? IF it doesn't it would mean there was no use for the trim...
Having never flown a real aircraft (that uses a yoke or a stick) I can't comment on that. Your assumption seems like it would be correct.


Edited by Joe (11/26/10 01:45 PM)

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#3144334 - 11/25/10 02:09 PM Re: Sticky CHProds Yoke ... lubrication? [Re: SkipperMac]
SkipperMac Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Well you learn something every day ... even at MY age lol.

Thanks again Ghost - WD40 about to be removed, dry lub being sought.

And further thanks to Joe - now I know that my yoke's "fault" is a design "feature" ... can't for the life of me think why people requested a 1 - 1.5 inch "null zone" though. And I'm amazed that the newer Eclipse has a similar built-in vagueness about the longitudinal centre. Ah well, perhaps it's time to buy a new joystick and start flying side-stickers in FSX ... or just become a dedicated BS hotshot ar15

Thanks again, and apologies if this was in the wrong thread - I've just realised this is the programming thread! Oops.
_________________________
SkipperMac
Suffolk, UK
Intel Dual 3.20MHz / 2Gb RAM / NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX+ / Hitachi 280GB & Western Digital 25GB / CHProd Yoke (!!!) & Pedals / FSX with FTX Pacific NorthEast and fps barely in double figures! / DCS: Black Shark almost converting me to vertical flight!

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