But the Ka-50 is like the Russian's idea of a rotary A-10 or Su-25 - and they only have one pilot. Why would it really be any different?

You have a co-pilot/gunner in the game, you aren't flying solo.

Well the A-10A (before the glass cockpit C) and Su-25 are pretty simple - pilot, no radar, rockets/fire and forget missiles and sodding big gun aligned with aircraft. Essentially a jet version of the P-47/Il-2.

However the increased vunerability and operating regime of the attack helicopter means I think you are flying much much lower, squeezing into tight clearings, hiding behind barns - if you think of a full-on threat environment, instead of the semi-permissive Afghan battlespace. I believe Macy's point was all other attack choppers (even old Lynx with TOW) had opted for two crew to solve this problem.

When your rotor blades are perhaps a couple of feet away away from a tree or structure that could immediatley destroy the helicopter, do you really want to be eyes down in the cockpit cycling through MFDs whilst also hovering the thing?

Plus the Ka-50 is a half-way house between steam gauges and a full digital cockpit - which also means your workload will be high...

Exactly. When I went on scout missions, pilots did make contact with tree tops. When flying NAP, you feared power and telephone lines.

But that is partly exactly my point. Because the Ka-50 would have been used in similar roles to the A-10 or Su-25, you wouldn't need to fly at treetop level or hide behind buildings. You'd probably fly at least a couple hundred feet off the ground and do more kind of strafing runs rather than a lot of ducking and hiding. Also, the Ka-50 has never been used in any other role than counter-insurgency - where this hot-and-high tactic is used and there are no high-threat enemy units to worry about radar and all manner of laser/IR/radar systems tracking you.

I dunno about that - a helo (even a specially armoured/equipped) gunship like Apache/Ka-50 is far more vunerable than an A-10/Su-25. Rotors/tail rotors are big target. Check out the Apache deep raid that happened in Iraq in 2003 - Apaches were ambushed, 1 shot down and I seem to recall all came back with significant damage.

In a high threat WarPact vs NATO punch up you'll have SAMs locking up anything that flies above Nap of the Earth, plus you will want to avoid fast movers out for a kill by staying as low as possible to keep in the ground clutter and so the Mark1 eyeball wouldn't see you.

I think the Ka-50 and its counter-insurgency role was not something it was speficially designed for but perhaps something it fell into when the Russian AF realised that the one-pilot combat helo concept only will work in permissive environment.

Don't get me wrong I think its a seriously cool chopper and a great bit of kit - but there were two designs Ka-50 Havoc & Mi-28 Hokum in the running to be the successor to the Mi-24 - and the Russians chose the Mi-28. (despite the Ka-50s having been tested in combat).

In light of Ed's remarks my reading of this was that the workload of the Ka-50 was too heavy for the average squadron pilot and in a full-on conventional war two crew was the way to go.

However for special forces support and anti-guerilla stuff - where you are worrying mosting about AAA and the odd MANPAD its fine - rather than keeping low to avoid an F-15 Eagle spotting you...

Just my two-penneth anyhow...

Does anyone know when a PC demo is out?

There will not be a pc demo, just console.

Then I'm gonna pass on this one.

Played the 360 version and wasn't impressed at all.

It's actually Ka-50 Hokum and Mi-28 Havoc.



Good to see this guy knows the real deal when he sees it... and in this case, Apache: Air Assault isn't it!