Hi,

I'm starting to learn how to fly in Falcon 4: Allied Force and Microsft FSX. I will probably play them both equally.
I currently have a USB-connector-less (I cut it because it was rusty and not working) SideWinder (this) joystick, and I am unable to find a store that knows how to repair it (it needs to have a USB connector soldered to its cable end). So I was thinking of buying a new joystick, a better one.

Problem is, I'm a bit confused. If my stick doesn't have rudder controls, how am I supposed to move the yaws? It seems to be essential for being able to properly land.

Many cheap joysticks have a twisting stick to control the yaw axis.

I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but I LOVE the Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X. It's DIRT cheap and has twist OR a separate rudder 'paddle', for lack of a better word, on the throttle. It's surprisingly intuitive, and you can lock the twist grip when you have it enabled. I personally HATE hate hate twist rudder. I always find myself accidentally giving full rudder in my turns because I'm pretty rough on my flight stick. Program-ability isn't the greatest out of the box, but I use an awesome piece of software called Xpadder, and with it I have BOATLOADS of options. My x52 gave me 3 'modes', but Xpadder gives you up to 10. I would probably recommend a more complex setup for games such as DCS, but I use it with LOMAC and it fits the bill PERFECTLY. If you watch my LOMAC videos on youtube, you can actually hear my slapping the rudder paddle being picked up on my mic quite often, lol...

Pic of the rudder paddle...




Oh, and the throttle is detachable from the stick if you so choose. I personally leave it in its stock configuration (pictured)

The Thrustmaster T.flight HOTAS looks good and I read a very positive review about it, but that review sees Tom Clancy's HAWX as a simulator, while in reality it's very arcade. So I'm sure using the T.flight is fun, but how realistic is it?

Another (much more expensive) option is buying a CH Products' Flightstick for roughly 100 USD, but I won't have rudder controls, at which case I wouldn't know what to do about controlling the yaws.

Also, what about the old SideWinder Force Feedback 2 and the not-so-old Thrustmaster T-16000M? They both have good reviews, especially regarding their precision. I like the MSFF2 more, but should I bother with such an old stick?

The SWFFB2 is surprisingly smooth in terms of centering force, with little slop around the center. (Vast difference from my Logitech WingMan Strike Force 3D there, for the better.) It's also very precise (10-bit resolution on X and Y axes, though throttle is 7-bit and twist is 6-bit), with no sign of jitter.

Just don't expect to adjust the FFB outside of games/sims if you're running Vista/Win7. The integrated drivers are all you get. It's also lacking buttons; four buttons and a single hat switch on the stick isn't much to work with. Enough for IL-2 Sturmovik, but not nearly enough for DCS: Black Shark or any remotely modern aircraft. (I use it there instead of my Cougar stick anyway, just for the FFB-enhanced cyclic trim.) Falcon 4.0...no way, you'd want a force-sensing Cougar or maybe the X-65F for that, but at least it's better than just the keyboard.

And speaking of MS Flight Simulator X, the FFB feels REALLY weird, like the centering forces are delayed or something. Very stark contrast from IL-2 and DCS:BS. Is that how a real aircraft is supposed to feel?

Watch out for those twist rudder thing....

A buddy of mine uses one of those and I was teaching him ACM. He got absolutely no chance, ... too predictable. Whenever I get on his tail, and switch on missile, I knew he's going to pull up and turn left. And of course I was already there waiting for him to turn into my kill box.

I ain't no psychic! It's quite simple. If you are right handed, human physiology dictates that it's easier for your right hand to twist left but it's a lot harder to twist right. In the heat of the battle, when missile alarm is going crazy, you do what comes most natural to you more times than otherwise. Boom, he's dead, every single time, even after I told him that's how I killed him and don't do that!

Kids, don't do twist!

So far, the Thrustmaster T.16000M looks like the best option, considering my budget limitation. I can't afford pedals or a throttle, so I need a cheap HOTAS solution or a joystick with a twisting option for controlling the yaws.

So there are two options now: The Thrustmaster T.16000M and the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X.
The T.16000M has a high resolution, but the T.Flight HOTAS has rudder buttons on its throttle.

Which is more important - rudder buttons or stick precision?

The T.16000M uses hall sensors for the pitch and roll axes. Thrustmaster's product description of the T.Flight HOTAS X makes no mention of hall sensors, so I presume it uses pots. Therefore, no only is the T.16000M much more precise, it will also stay that way. You can expect the T.Flight HOTAS X pots to degrade over time.

T.16000M seems the best option despite its twist stick. Perhaps a valid upgrade for you down the road could be the purchase of standalone rudder pedals.

Alright then. I'll buy the T.16000M sometime next week.

Between twist rudder and button rudder... I will take twist any day. The lesser of the two evil. The buttons are impossible because they don't have enough travel to have any meaningful "fine" control. Off - 1/2 - full. How many more variations can your fingers do with a 1/4" travel? A little more different levels maybe, but not too many more. Even if you could, are you sure it's 1/4 not 1/5 or 1/3,...., in the heat of battle?

There is a good reason why buttons are usually on-off devices.

When I was a rank beginner in Falcon I got a Saitek X52 and matching pedals. I returned the stick in less than a week and sprung for a HOTAS Cougar instead. (kept the pedals, they're good enough) This might seem counter intuitive but to me it made sense. We (the taxpayers) already spent millions of dollars developing the best method to control the F-16 and arrived at that design. IMO it's actually easier to learn on the correct thing rather than trying to shoehorn the commands into different and fewer buttons. I also got a TrackIR early on, it makes a HUGE difference. If you have only X dollars to spend I'd get the cheap stick and a TrackIR rather than the fancy stick and no TrackIR.

Doing it this way is expensive though! But overall it could be cheaper if you're just going to buy the better stuff later on

I'm afraid my interest in flight sims might fade in time. I also would like the stick to be ergonomic and suit to both combat and civil flight sims, not just one of them.
I can afford a Cougar or Fighterstick now, but what if I lose interest after a few weeks? I'd rather buy a cheap joystick for now.