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#3089227 - 09/07/10 08:25 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: LukeFF]
LIONPRIDE
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Originally Posted By: gatordev
At the end of the day, I understand it's your house here, so I do say this with respect, but understand I do do this for a living. I'm more than happy to discuss/debrief the particular mission you are talking about. In fact I welcome it because I think some insight could be brought to light. That said, the "pop up" is THE WORST tactic to utilize against small arms when you have the limited visibilities we do w/in the game engine (oh, and in real life, too). It's not 1982 and we're not fighting the Russian horde. And I didn't take anywhere near the damage that you think I took.


Military helo pilot?


No - I think he meant he games for a living - matrix - lol


.

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#3089476 - 09/08/10 07:47 AM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: LukeFF]
fatty Offline
ArmA2 Mission Designer
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 2924
Loc: Halifax, NS, Canada
Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Originally Posted By: gatordev
At the end of the day, I understand it's your house here, so I do say this with respect, but understand I do do this for a living. I'm more than happy to discuss/debrief the particular mission you are talking about. In fact I welcome it because I think some insight could be brought to light. That said, the "pop up" is THE WORST tactic to utilize against small arms when you have the limited visibilities we do w/in the game engine (oh, and in real life, too). It's not 1982 and we're not fighting the Russian horde. And I didn't take anywhere near the damage that you think I took.


Military helo pilot?


http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2972023/A_Haiti_pic_or_two.html#Post2972023 thumbsup


Edited by fatty (09/08/10 02:47 PM)
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#3089584 - 09/08/10 09:55 AM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: gatordev]
Ltfransky Offline
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Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 501
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Originally Posted By: gatordev
At the end of the day, I understand it's your house here, so I do say this with respect, but understand I do do this for a living.


Oh snap!

Heh, you said DoDo smile
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#3089689 - 09/08/10 11:47 AM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: Ltfransky]
Brennus Offline
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Heya Gator, I had no idea you did that for a living. I need to pay more attention.

S!
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#3089844 - 09/08/10 02:41 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: Ltfransky]
gatordev Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 261
Originally Posted By: Ltfransky
Originally Posted By: gatordev
At the end of the day, I understand it's your house here, so I do say this with respect, but understand I do do this for a living.


Oh snap!

Heh, you said DoDo smile



I was wondering if anyone would catch that.

Thanks for the publicity, Fatty. And for what it's worth, I always enjoy your missions w/ the aviation element. Great mission design and fun to play, on the ground or in the air.

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#3089872 - 09/08/10 03:10 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: fatty]
Magnum Offline
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XBL: Magnum SimHQ
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 23287
Loc: Naples, Florida
Thats cool, and much respect... seriously... but really, I know I'm old school, cold war trained... but you can't tell me the new tactic is for a thin skinned bird to fly over the kill zone over and over... I was watching, you were being engaged and smoking from the hits on each run... it's not the fact that it's "my house", it's the fact I was squad leader. Not trying to be controversial with you, just really want to know... that is the tactic for a scout, little bird now?
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#3089923 - 09/08/10 03:53 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: fatty]
fatty Offline
ArmA2 Mission Designer
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 2924
Loc: Halifax, NS, Canada
There seem to be two chief problems with using the AH-6 as a stand-off platform. First, the AH-6's weapons are on fixed mounts, so the aircraft has to be moved to aim them, making it difficult to remain stationary. Second, the cockpit is big and unarmoured, with the pilot's body almost fully exposed to the enemy. Incoming fire therefore has a good chance of striking the crew, especially when the AH-6 is oriented towards the enemy.

Reading a little bit about GOTHIC SERPENT, it seems that AH-6s were (are?) mostly employed for quick hit-and-run strikes, exploiting the AH-6's great speed and manoeuvrability to make fast gun runs at street level, avoiding small arms fire or at least absorbing it in non-essential areas.
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#3089953 - 09/08/10 04:19 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: fatty]
gatordev Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 261
Originally Posted By: fatty
There seem to be two chief problems with using the AH-6 as a stand-off platform. First, the AH-6's weapons are on fixed mounts, so the aircraft has to be moved to aim them, making it difficult to remain stationary. Second, the cockpit is big and unarmoured, with the pilot's body almost fully exposed to the enemy. Incoming fire therefore has a good chance of striking the crew, especially when the AH-6 is oriented towards the enemy.

Reading a little bit about GOTHIC SERPENT, it seems that AH-6s were (are?) mostly employed for quick hit-and-run strikes, exploiting the AH-6's great speed and manoeuvrability to make fast gun runs at street level, avoiding small arms fire or at least absorbing it in non-essential areas.


@Magnum,

I think what Fatty says above is really the issue. You are absolutely right...a scout shouldn't be in the middle of the tracers. But the AH-6 (as modeled in Arma2) doesn't have the sensors to be as helpful as I think you were hoping. The trade-off, at least as I perceive it, is to make a run-in at high speed, lay down a large amount of suppressive fire (w/ the mini-guns) and then egress. Maybe it was one of those times when the game engine smiles upon the brave, because I didn't really take much damage despite what you may have seen. But standing still and scouting could result in one well-placed bullet into the bubble and the pilot knocked out of play.

What I find amusing is that the previous mission, where you used the well-armored Apache to scout, as it was designed to do, resulted in you getting shot down. I'm not saying that's the wrong play for that particular platform, just amusing when you consider the balsa and tissue paper construction that is the MD-500 (compared to the Apache).

As for you being the Squad leader...you're right. I know the general ROE here is that the SL makes the call, period. Right or wrong, it's just different in the aviation community where the aircraft commander has the final say on what happens to his aircraft. So I apologize for not following the local ROE. I don't agree w/ the decision, but I understand that's not necessarily the point. And for what it's worth, that's why I posted the AAR in another thread. Just to give some perspective. I certainly plan to continue playing w/ a great group of people next Monday as long as I'm still welcome (and as long as they don't send me to the boat...which I'm hearing rumblings about).

Quote:
Not trying to be controversial with you, just really want to know... that is the tactic for a scout, little bird now?


Just a quick follow up... I'm not an Army Scout pilot, so I don't know what their tactics are. And if I was, I probably wouldn't discuss much of them here. But generally, as a helo, your one major defense against small arms is energy, which usually comes from speed. Unless you have really well trained gunners, optically guided munitions are going to be defeated by energy and changing the three dimensional picture rapidly (jinking). You can usually pull that off in Arma2 as long as you have speed.


Edited by gatordev (09/08/10 04:24 PM)

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#3090426 - 09/09/10 09:48 AM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: gatordev]
fatty Offline
ArmA2 Mission Designer
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 2924
Loc: Halifax, NS, Canada
Originally Posted By: gatordev
Originally Posted By: Ltfransky
Originally Posted By: gatordev
At the end of the day, I understand it's your house here, so I do say this with respect, but understand I do do this for a living.


Oh snap!

Heh, you said DoDo smile



I was wondering if anyone would catch that.

Thanks for the publicity, Fatty. And for what it's worth, I always enjoy your missions w/ the aviation element. Great mission design and fun to play, on the ground or in the air.


Thanks also gator, glad you enjoy those missions. Been trying to incorporate helos a bit more into new missions. Any feedback is always appreciated.
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#3090763 - 09/09/10 04:11 PM Re: Military Monday 6 September 2010 [Re: fatty]
Ghost_unit13 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 231
Loc: The Netherlands
Fatty, about the heli in that new hostage mission. I noticed last SEAM that as a pilot there was no option to switch to the AI gunner position, so the AI takes over the pilot controle(auto hover). Is there a way to manage that in cause you flying without a human gunner? Thinking about it..is this switching posible in a MP game?

Would be great!
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