I certainly don't get unplayable jerking when I'm panning around using my TIR5 and have the MSFF2 plugged in, its quite smooth, not silky but very decent. I use the USB ports on my ASUS board though.

Interesting post Knowbreaks, so maybe its worth trying a decent PCI or PCI-E USB adapter if your having trouble with the MSFF2, they aren't expensive. I've never liked USB hubs, some times gear works with them sometimes not.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2-Port-Gigabyte-SuperSpeed-USB-30-PCI-E-Host-Card-(NEC)

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Belkin-Hi-Speed-USB2-5-Port-PCI-Card-(F5U220VEA1)

I'm plugged straight in to my mother board on my TIR and MSFFB. I can use FFB, but the trade off from Silky to micro stutters is un acceptable (to me). Plus I don't miss the ffb too much, the stick's natural return to centre "spring" still feels nicer than a conventional stick.

Tag Taken sounds less like FFB/TIR issues and more like the dual core Win7 issue. Which is fixable Something along the lines of disabling v-sync and limiting frames in RoF settings

Just for fun, try lowering FPS limit in latest version of RoF settings window to say 30 or 40 to check if things don't get better.

Tag mate, out of interest I hooked up my MSFFB2 again and lo and behold it is now works fine, jitters etc gone obviously due in some part to the patches......exactly how your guess is as good as mine. All this hub talk was in my case absolutely off the mark, at the time I even loaned a Hub off a mate to test and it did not fix it. So, with exactly the same rig and O/S I had previously it now works fine with FFB enabled. I would not get your hopes up about a hub fixing it, its obviously not the problem at least for some people.

One common theme that keeps creeping up is people with dual cores, yet others with dual say they have no problem? Gaaah....the mind boggles. I even set up a dual boot at the time to test it with XP like yourself, still no joy....showing that in my case it had nothing to do with the O/S ore even USB. I get a headache just thinking about it lol. Wish I could help ye mate as I know how frikkin annoying it is, but I'm not the techie type. Even the tech Guru's apparently can't fathom it.

RE: G940, its been slammed a lot recently (by me as well) and deservedly so regarding the throttle issue; in its defence however (even OJ Simpson had one, bear with me lol) I have to say it is without doubt the most precise Joystick I have used, and hands down the best FFB, easily besting the MSFFB2. I don't like the peddles though, and would love to ask the Genius who decided the rotaries/trims shouldn't have détentes where he is getting his crack supply from.

I'd like to think I maybe 'know a little' on this score at least as I have used a lot of high end sticks. Been a flight sim nutter since I was 13, I'm now 34 and have a wee collection. In storage I have a cougar (unmodded, crap IMO) an excellent CH Fighterstick, the aforementioned MSFFB2 (a legend), an X52 Pro and have used many more (love the X52pro throttle its the dogs. Ergonomic Nirvana IMO. ). I have no hesitation in saying that in terms of input precision it is at very least the equal to (and mostly better) than them all (yes even the Fighterstick and easily the MSFFB2). This is the most important criteria for me personally.

So, just thought I'd try and bring some "balance to the force", lol. I'm not one of the OCD simmer types but I do expect things to work properly when I have payed good money for them, reasonable enough. I'd have to hesitate to recommend the G940 7 months on now due to the throttle debacle. Additionally for Logitechs apparent contempt for paying customers (see 'Buddywoof's posts on their help forum.....eminently civil, reasonable and polite requests for help getting blatantly ignored or fobbed off, good stuff Logitech .I'm sure Buddywoof posts here too, seems a nice bloke and its sh*t the way he was being treat.)

I did not even bother posting there for help, what would be the point? I'm maybe not quite as zenned out as Buddywoof either and would have probably lost my rag well before that; if there's one thing I can't abide its ignorance and blatant rudeness....As a paying customer you deserve a decent response. Really get on my t*ts, pet hate.

Returning the G940 throttle on Wednesday, but its likely that the same could happen again. Maybe chance it if you can get it on the cheap, and the 'fix' seems easy if out of warranty, not the point though really is it? All is not well in Logi-Land, and they are shooting themselves in the face, not foot, with a bazooka. Word gets around in flight sim communities quickly, and they are either too thick to realise this or even worse they don't care. Either way, not good.

Anyway, good luck mate....would be a shame for you to give up on ROF over this, but understood.

KnowBreaks, here's the thread at the RoF forums.
MSFF2 mystery

I think you are on the right track with the added USB card.
If I was having this issue, I'd buy one of those cards and try it. I always run out of USB slots anyway, so the card would just be helpful even if it didnt fix the MSFF2 issue.
I hope this fixes the issue. I posted your thoughts (and the link to this thread) over at the RoF forums so we're all on the same page.

IMO, the MSFF2 is STILL the best stick available.

(btw, I have an Asus mb)

In respect of USB being the issue. I have my doubts about that. In fact I would say that it is nothing to do with the issue

FFB is just part a component of DirectX and a game just writes routines in the code to translate certain critieria in the game to the directinput component of DX (just a bunch of nameless .dlls) Regulating the force in game is part of the game telling the DX FF components how to react.

I'm not 100% sure how TIR works, but as it is a mouse emulator I would say it plugs into DX's directInput too. I would say the issue is mostly DX related and how RoF communicates with DX. Hence the reason the devs don't want to start rewriting the code for DX inputs.

The common factor in RoF's issue with FFB are only apparent when using TIR. The majority of FFB sticks are self powered if not all (I'd be surprised if there were any that weren't) TIR draws power from USB, that's true, but it draws no more than a mouse or keyboard.

Also the issue is only apparent when pairing TIR and FFB in Vista/Win7/DirectX10+ PC's

So in summary, I think DX10+ is the culprit and how RoF interacts with DX in respect of FFB and TIR

I appreciate your sharing the info, and sincerely hope it might be of help. Asus makes decent boards; I've owned quite a few myself. But what matters is the actual manufacturer of the chip that drives the USB. I am relatively certain Asus doesn't make this - but they are perhaps more likely to use better-quality components and therefore have less issues...maybe(?)



I'm fairly opposed to USB hubs myself, and while the add-in card might be a suggestion I'd make, I don't know that I'd recommend using a hub. Maybe this is part of the problem; people tend to look at the two as the same, perhaps. I usually tell people to only use a hub if they absolutely must, and even then to use a powered unit (or et an add-in card to hopefully avoid the whole issue).

I wanted to offer (or attempt) a better explanation about the hub idea: As above, I am not a big fan of USB hubs. Many USB device manufacturers will tell you if you have an issue with their device while connected to a hub, then (drum roll, please) disconnect it from the hub and plug it straight into the computer. I have also seen instances (and I'm sure others have as well) where connecting to a "front panel" USB jack wouldn't work, but plugging the same device into the motherboard in the back worked just fine. (Sometimes a manufacturer will ask you do this, as a troubleshooting step).

For me, from a technical perspective, there are two (potential) issues:

1. A given USB port won't manage the load drawn by the device plugged into it.
2. A given USB controller has issues with certain configurations of cables, load, and/or other factors that will cause erratic behavior.

If you try a hub - even if it's powered - you might wind up introducing or worsening a problem; buying a unit that Company A makes doesn't mean it automatically has a different USB controller than Company B's unit. When I bought the PCI card I mentioned above, I specifically went looking for something based on the NEC USB controller. It cost twice as much as the other unit they had - but the other unit was based on the same controller I'd already had issue with. To make matters worse, some controllers work just fine with some units, even if neither unit works with anything else.

No matter which 'alternative' you try, it does pay to be mindful of known issues with certain controllers; there is infomation out there, but it takes some tracking down.

Edit: With regard to what Brigstock says, I couldn't argue necessarily. It may be a problem with something besides USB, I don't know. I just read over this thread, and - having had particular experiences with USB "fun" myself, thought I'd mention something that seemed overlooked up until that point.

I wish everyone well in trying to get their setup to work.