If he truly has moved on it won't be good for OCC at all.
Sr. may think that anyone can be replaced but everyone can't be replaced in an extremely short period of time.


Wheels

Post #4775

I can't seem to find any corroborating sources that Rick has left OCC. I don't know when the Sr v. Jr show was taped so that doesn't help.

Anyway, Rick is/was my favorite guy at OCC. Others have talent, notably Jim Quinn (sp?), and Mike Amoratti (sp?) are pretty good. Beyond that, I think it gets pretty thin, from what the TV show shows me.

This is all so sad. Rick said at one point that he wished they could all get back together and just be the crew that they were. Man, Rick, I wish you were right, but I don't see it happening. Sr. has f*ed the situation so far, it is not recoverable.

I tried looking on Rick's facebook page but since I don't have an account I can't read his blog entries.


Wheels

Well, you guys got me watching this again. LOL
I guess this is last week's episode now, and it's becoming obvious how OCC is pretty lame now. Not much you can do with a window bike, but that thing was gaudy and unimaginative. Sr. really doesn't do much but talk and kick back in the office, he really seems out of touch with bike building.
Hope Jr's business takes off, he seems to have the right people around him and ready to work for it.

Thought it was funny when Sr. was talking about Jr's work ethic, and said how he himself comes in every day since he wants to be there. Funny how easy it is when you don't have some bully boss wandering around giving everyone a hard time. He wouldn't last a week at a job with a boss like he is to everyone else. No wonder people don't want to be at OCC.

Last weeks episode will be playing again in about 30 minutes for me. I'll get to see tonight's episode at 9:00 or in about 90 minutes.
The previews for tonight's episode shows Sr. getting in touch with Mikey. I wonder if it has to do with him wanting Mikey to testify in court and not about reconcilliation ?


Wheels

For the first time this season, I felt bad for Senior. Mikey is clearly the kid whose relationship he treasures above the others. So, he was very hurt when he reached out to him and then was shot down. But just as quickly as I felt bad for him I realized that this favoritism he has for Mikey is part of why he can't make peace with anyone.

Mikey is soft. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He is the exact opposite of the type of people Senior surrounds himself with... and so he is the one person who has made Senior feel safe because he doesn't feel like he has to bully him or threaten him or abuse him to get what he wants. He expects nothing from Mikey except to be funny, and Mikey is innately funny.

So when Mikey turned him down, it made Senior feel vulnerable. Senior doesn't like feeling that way. He is a man who has built his "empire" through bullying. He pits people against his competition, no matter who it may be, and if you behave in any way other than completely loyal, you are OUT. And that is why everyone eventually leaves him. Because if you won't be bullied, then you are a loser.

Except for Mikey. So, Mikey has all the power but lacks the will to use it.

Sr. is an overgrown 12 year old school yard bully, that's about all there is to it. Seems that his kids have just outgrown him while he remains stuck at 12.

I just got through watching tonight's episode. I've went through a lawsuit with family and it sucks! Worst year of my life to date.
My parents, my dad's sister, her husband, their son and his wife owned a business together and they ended up in a lawsuit over the business.
I got sued too simply because I worked there and was related. When it was done we didn't speak to them and they didn't speak to us for years. My dad's sister and her husband died without us ever speaking or getting together again. My cousin only spoke to my dad for the first time since the lawsuit this month at another uncle's funeral. To put the timeline in perspective we were sued in 1990 and here it is 2010 before any contact between the parties has happened. We'll see if it goes anywhere from there.

Working with family can really be a blessing if it works but a total nightmare if it doesn't work. I hope Sr. and his sons can work it out before he passes away for all of their sake. I don't expect it to happen though because both parties feel they are in the right in this situation and when that happens there is no room to give.

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From the previews it looks like Jr. is going to be having trouble with his first build.
That's not terrible because it is going to be his bike but I hope it isn't an omen of things to come. (I do hate Jr's crown logo though.)
On a side note I have worked on Haas mills similar to the one's Jr. bought. It was neat seeing something I was familiar with in his shop.
Sr. has a few of them too.


Wheels

I am currently working with family... and I doubt it will go badly because we have always maintained pretty healthy relationships. But I have been thinking about the potential of things going badly after watching how this family has imploded. If there is a lesson it is that you never put the business ahead of family. The "it's not personal, it's just business" mentality does NOT belong in a family business.

If it is about family, IT IS PERSONAL.

Watched the show last night, it was pretty good. OCC built a chopper for a NY welding outfit and it turned out pretty good. Rick was still at OCC, haven't seen a "Free Rick" t shirt yet. Paulie and Sr. went to court. It was really sad when Jr. was describing seeing Sr. as he paced through the hall outside of the courtroom and Jr. thinking he was looking for the bathroom said "Dad, it's down on the hall on the right." and apparently Sr. just ignored him. What a brat Sr. is.

The deal with Mikey was too bad, but so what? Why don't you listen to him Sr. and reconcile with your other son? Oh no, money's more important. Well, screw it, you and your money can have lots of happy times together.

I had laugh, Jr. actually listened to my suggestion about just building a bike. Not a theme bike, a bike. I would have built a customer bike, but if he wants to keep it at the shop, that's cool too. Maybe build a customer chopper next. Too bad the deal with the Knights of Columbus fell through. But I think Jr.'s got a good perspective on it, you have to keep trying and one of these days, hopefully soon, one will come through. And then another one. I have to believe that the TV show will help, once that first bike is made and people over the country can see it. Good luck to Jr. and Vinnie and the crew.

Mikey is nutso, hiring a personal assistant? Sit in your back yard and shoot stuff with a BB gun?

I agree that Mikey has went off the rails. I think he still needs professional help and I am not talking about a personal assistant.


Wheels

I think Mikey was getting professional help. But his issues are probably related to growing up with a dysfunctional father who let him get away with things he would strangle others for. It instills a crappy set of values during the various stages of socialization.

And I know... I know... people want to believe that we are the masters of our own destinies and blah blah. But those are people who don't want to take responsibility for screwing up their kids, or need to believe they are somehow strong enough to shrug off their horrid upbringing (or they were so well raised they think everyone else is a wussy for complaining about something they don't understand).

Senior has made a bunch of addicts who are very creative.

Mikey was in alcohol rehab last year but he finished it.
Even though he did get through that program I felt from what I saw in last nights show he would benefit from some more professional help.
I agree that his father had a lot to do with his mental state now.


Wheels

I agree RB, considering the father they were handed out, those kids mostly have done well. Mikey has some definite issues and I think he's flakier than what we see on TV. Still, his email to his father, I thought, was well done. Thoughtful and got to the heart of the matter.

Speaking of which, where the hell is Sr.'s heart gone to? I've seen some previous shows where he breaks down with Paulie and they both admit some things and hug and cry. Guess that's all over now and all that's left is a big husk of a man who has no feelings other than rage.

The show last night, he popped off on Rick again. Mike Amarotti got a little Sr. wrath, but it's looking more and more like Rick is going to be the whipping boy. Sr. better get a grip on that or Rick's going away. One more person gone from his true OCC "family". WTG Sr., you screw up whoever gets near to you.

Jason coming out in Jr's hat and Sunglasses wasn't funny to me. It just showed how little respect that Sr. is allowing to be fostered towards his own kid.

I knew that Sr. having the 20 dollar bet on cussing was going to go badly for him. He didn't last two minutes, at least in the editing of the show it was that quick.


Wheels

The impression thing was petty. I think they know they lack anything special there now. Now it's the OCC guys playing around and the Jr guys all on task. A nice reversal. If the new business takes off those guys will get a chance to really blossom.
Or by the end of the season they'll all be back as OCC but Jr might just have his own separate shop. I'd rather see Jr's business take off and Vinnie a partner.

I'm hoping Jr. can get his business to takeoff pretty soon. I'd hate to see him fail at this point.
Hope the Knights of Columbus thing comes through for him eventually because it did sound like it would be a cool bike to make.
At least the people who contacted him initially still seemed interested in getting it done.

I liked the OOC bike they made last night for ESAB a lot better than the one they made last week for Window World.
Him riding by Jr.s shop each time they finish a bike is starting to seem petty and not funny to me.
I hope Jr. is able to do a burnout in OCC's parking lot just like Sr's said was OK. I think the reality of it happening would be a lot different to Sr.

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Custom Window World bikes from Orange County Choppers generate $100,000 for the children's charity
Even though I didn't like the bike, that's pretty cool.


Wheels

Jason saw an opportunity to play the fool while taking advantage of the current family problem. He is setting himself up as the replacement for Junior and Mikey.

Based on how they are editing the episodes, I think we are going to see Junior succeed. If they were setting Junior up for failure, the editors would first build him up, showing him succeed. Senior's narrative would not be about predicting his failure but showing support. Reality shows build narratives... and once you learn them, you can easily predict where things are going.

Like last episode when we saw Senior talking to Rick in ways he never did when Junior was around... this is a setup to Rick walking out on him. Rick could take it when he was special. Becoming just another punching bag for Senior will not sit well with him.

Jason is a dork and one I don't particularly like. That pretending to be Jr. bit was juvenile. No wonder Sr. thought it was funny. And yeah, the producers used it in the show to continue the Sr. versus Jr. storyline.

I understand what you're saying about reality shows and to an extent I agree. But I also think there are some dynamics with these people you just can't script. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. I very much doubt Sr. would take it well if he felt like he was played by the producers, but then again maybe he would, money hound that he is. They are clearly setting it up for Rick's leaving OCC. The "Free Rick" t shirts and more and more they show Sr. barking at him. Don't misunderstand, I think this all actually happens and it's not scripted, but a matter of editing and deciding what to show when.

Hope you're right about Jr. succeeding, and I think he will.

Be interesting to know when these episodes were taped.

Senior is doing all these things, so the editors are not forcing him to give them hours and hours of story to bend against him. I just mean that they could frame the narrative differently if they wanted to and are giving us all the negativity up front to rally people against Senior, for when Junior succeeds.

Granted, this is just supposition based on my experience with how it is often done.

As for when the episodes are taped, a friend of mine worked on another reality show for a couple of seasons and they were getting the footage months after shooting had happened. If memory serves me, the footage first goes to people who watch EVERYTHING and they create journals detailing what happened. Then the story editors (or whatever they are called) build a narrative from those journals. Then a group of editors extracts the scenes from the footage, and then another group of editors builds the story using that footage.

This all takes time. Probably a few weeks per episode and they have to have 3 or 4 episodes ready to go by the time the season starts. So, figure some of this stuff was shot at least four months ago.

EDIT: Actually, I remember this friend finishing up a season months before it aired. So, I think they were shooting more than six months ahead of the footage airing.