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#3047835 - 07/08/10 02:13 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Legend]  
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Since we are joking about the freking octopus! smile



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#3047849 - 07/08/10 02:44 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: fatty]  
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Originally Posted By: fatty


Rubbing it in?

Seems Germany were better losers than the Spaniards were winners...


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#3047903 - 07/08/10 04:33 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Freycinet]  
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Freycinet,

that was after the winning of the EURO 2008.

Still not the best taste though.


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#3047957 - 07/08/10 05:42 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Freycinet]  
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So what are the football experts saying about the Final? Which team is favored to win?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3047986 - 07/08/10 06:36 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I think Spain looks stronger. Their tiki-taki passing game where they just keep the ball is very hard to counter. If the Netherlands wants to prevail, I think they'll have to play rough and powerful. But that will be hard for them, because it is in their character to play a technical game, try to gain possession. It is in their nature to try that, but I am sure that that will lead to defeat, because Spain does it better.

The Netherlands should try to be inspired by a Mourinho-style - or even Rehagel-style - "anti-football" game. But it is really not in their nature...


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#3048012 - 07/08/10 07:39 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Freycinet]  
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I'm no expert, and Spain certainly will be tough to crack. However, the Dutch will not make the same mistake as the German team to stand there in "shock and awe" when the Spanish team starts playing tiki-taki.

For me the Dutch team during this tournament went away from the style they are renowned and praised for, but played a bit different, less technical. Well, it worked, they are in the finals now.

Besides, it is very unlikely, but who can say if Spain won't have an off-day? Just think about the match versus Paraguay, many seemed to believe here that Spain had bad chances when facing Germany after the Argentines were so badly defeated. Alas, the German team just folded. frown

Of course, same goes for the Dutch, but I doubt it.

Chances for Spain are 60:40 for me. I really wouldn't rule out the Dutch, just like I didn't rule out Spain after quarterfinals.


@Boandlgramer: the flag is still flying here and I want the German team to actually dismantle the Uru team on Saturday. As you can see, I slept over it wink

#3048035 - 07/08/10 08:12 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: purolator]  
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Originally Posted By: purolator
I'm no expert, and Spain certainly will be tough to crack. However, the Dutch will not make the same mistake as the German team to stand there in "shock and awe" when the Spanish team starts playing tiki-taki.


The German team made no mistake against the Spanish, they simply met a much better team.

The Germans had only one real game plan in this world cup: A very well organised defence, combined with a fast and efficent forward line. They essentially played counter attack football.

It worked marvelously against England and Argentina because with England they came up against a team that had greatly underperformed and were looking to prove themselves. They set out to attack Germany and neglected the defence too much. The first 'sucker punch' goal made England attack even harder and leave yet more space at the back, which further played in to the German team's game-plan. The results were plain to see.

Argentina were similar. A team that had an achilles heel defence and relied on an inspirational and overwhelming attack. This perfectly suited the German game plan too and, yet again, the result was similar to the England game.

In Spain the Germans simply came up against a superior team that refused to fall in to the trap. Spain remained organised and didn't over commit on the attack. They had the skill to keep the ball and maintain their shape. Once Germany's plan-A had failed there was pretty much no plan-B, we saw a similar pattern during the Serbian game. This German team were too one dimensional.

That's not to be overtly critical of Germany. Plenty of teams try to play counter attack football and don't do it half as well as the Germans did, it was absolutely brilliant when it worked, but they lacked tactical flexibility when an opposing team wouldn't fall for the trap.

Last edited by Ant; 07/08/10 08:16 PM.
#3048110 - 07/08/10 09:47 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Freycinet]  
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Originally Posted By: Freycinet
I think Spain looks stronger. Their tiki-taki passing game where they just keep the ball is very hard to counter. If the Netherlands wants to prevail, I think they'll have to play rough and powerful. But that will be hard for them, because it is in their character to play a technical game, try to gain possession. It is in their nature to try that, but I am sure that that will lead to defeat, because Spain does it better.


Well, the Netherlands do have Van Bommel though. smile


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#3048129 - 07/08/10 10:05 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Jayhawk]  
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For me it was pretty obvious that the German team was awed by how Spain played. During the second half there was a period of about 5 to 10 minutes where the German team was so awed by how well the Spanish midfield played their "tiki-taki" that they basically just stopped and watched.

It was the same as with the match against Serbia. Once they couldn't get into the game, they faltered. IMO one reason is that Lahm - while techically a brilliant player - is not a leader. He shouldn't be the team captain. Schweinsteiger would have been the better choice, but even he is not seasoned enough. Lahm's style of leadership, "flat hierarchy", only works when the team is on a winning streak. When things become difficult, you'll need someone who is respected - even a little feared - by his fellow teammates. Someone like Oliver Kahn. smile

Some players clearly were awed even before the match began; one could see it in their faces: Boateng, Khedira, Trochowski, even Lahm. In this game, Germany would have needed someone like Ballack, someone not afraid to - as Freycinet already pointed out - destroy the Spanish combination game. Not pretty, but this was a semi-final, after all.


But Ballack's time is over, IMO, and I am convinced that if the current team is keeping up the good work, make some small personnel changes (Gomez!!), this team will win the EURO 2012 and the WC 2014. You've heard it here first. wink


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#3048146 - 07/08/10 10:26 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Ant]  
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Ant, I read your posting four times now, and it makes more and more sense to me. Very true, it was similar against Serbia, I heard this several times today by workmates as well.

Jayhawk says it all faltered like it was against Serbia when they couldn't get into the game. Sounds right, the Spanish ensured this wouldn't happen really and when Germany started playing football it was too late and the Spanish have proven that they were better too.

In short, the Spanish found the Achilles heel of the German team.

However, I stick to my opinion (and Jayhawk agreed) that the German team was also too much in awe by the Spanish team. That Spain has the better team anyway, yesterday it was obvious.

#3048148 - 07/08/10 10:32 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
this team will win the EURO 2012 and the WC 2014. You've heard it here first. wink


Nope. USA will be winning the WC in 2014.


Hey, I can fantasize ok? biggrin


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#3048164 - 07/08/10 11:00 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk

Some players clearly were awed even before the match began; one could see it in their faces: Boateng, Khedira, Trochowski, even Lahm. In this game, Germany would have needed someone like Ballack, someone not afraid


True! - I saw it too, when the players were in the entrance tunnel just before game start. They looked afraid, nervous, some even had tics. Very unusual, and it made me think - at the time even - that something was not right with the German team here.

Well, they are all very young guys, it is normal...


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#3048165 - 07/08/10 11:03 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Not much mention was made here of Thomas Mueller. Some commentators think that his absence in the Spain-Germany match might have been critical. What do people here think of Mueller's playing?


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#3048191 - 07/08/10 11:33 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: letterboy1]  
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http://weareaustin.com/fulltext?nxd_id=75455

Quote:
Parrot predicts World Cup results

Move over Paul the octopus, Singapore has its own football tipster in the form of a parakeet called Mani. The seven-year-old bird from Malaysia has become a national sensation, having predicted that Holland, Uruguay, Germany and Spain would make it into the semi-finals and that Spain would beat Germany. Mani has picked the Netherlands to win the championship match and his owner, fortune teller Munniyappan, has full confidence in the feathered pundit.


biggrin


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#3048251 - 07/09/10 01:13 AM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Desert Eagle]  
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Smart bird. The Netherlands will not be afraid when they face Spain. They will not be nervous before the game, and will be unafraid on the field. That is why the Netherlands will win the 2010 World Cup. Bank on it!

Cheers!

Rick...
cowboy


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#3048344 - 07/09/10 04:19 AM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Sauron]  
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Ouch! Someone bet 500,000 on Germany to win in their semi-final match.
http://g.sg.sports.yahoo.com/football/wo...n=fbintl,254651

#3048404 - 07/09/10 08:27 AM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
For me it was pretty obvious that the German team was awed by how Spain played. During the second half there was a period of about 5 to 10 minutes where the German team was so awed by how well the Spanish midfield played their "tiki-taki" that they basically just stopped and watched.



The German team were neither awed nor scared. You are mistaking a deliberate tactical plan for fear and paralysis.

Standing and watching Spain play in midfield was the right thing to do, it nearly worked, Spain only scored once, and from a corner at that.

What you seem to have wanted the Geman team to do...get tight and harass the Spanish...is the wrong thing against a team like Spain. You don't go tight on a technically superior team because they'll pull you out of position, use your own movement to create space, and punish you. A technically superior player will also find it easier to turn his marker and run in to space when that marker is tight. The marker is effectively taken out of the game.

The way the Germans played it was correct. They allowed the Spanish to have the ball in midfield but maintained their shape in front of them, denying the Spanish space to exploit. They allowed Spain to have the ball but deny them the use of it in the final third. The Swiss played a similar game against Spain and we saw how that worked out. Germany played it the same way.

In short Germany actually played a very good defensive game, it just wasn't quite good enough in the end and the Spanish refused to show Germany their exposed defence the way England and Argentina had.

Don't fall for this myth that the real German team didn't show up, or that Germany played badly. Both of those assertions are incorrect. They simply came up against a better team.

Last edited by Ant; 07/09/10 08:29 AM.
#3048545 - 07/09/10 04:01 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Ant]  
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Originally Posted By: Ant
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
For me it was pretty obvious that the German team was awed by how Spain played. During the second half there was a period of about 5 to 10 minutes where the German team was so awed by how well the Spanish midfield played their "tiki-taki" that they basically just stopped and watched.



The German team were neither awed nor scared. You are mistaking a deliberate tactical plan for fear and paralysis.

Standing and watching Spain play in midfield was the right thing to do, it nearly worked, Spain only scored once, and from a corner at that.

What you seem to have wanted the Geman team to do...get tight and harass the Spanish...is the wrong thing against a team like Spain. You don't go tight on a technically superior team because they'll pull you out of position, use your own movement to create space, and punish you. A technically superior player will also find it easier to turn his marker and run in to space when that marker is tight. The marker is effectively taken out of the game.

The way the Germans played it was correct. They allowed the Spanish to have the ball in midfield but maintained their shape in front of them, denying the Spanish space to exploit. They allowed Spain to have the ball but deny them the use of it in the final third. The Swiss played a similar game against Spain and we saw how that worked out. Germany played it the same way.

In short Germany actually played a very good defensive game, it just wasn't quite good enough in the end and the Spanish refused to show Germany their exposed defence the way England and Argentina had.

Don't fall for this myth that the real German team didn't show up, or that Germany played badly. Both of those assertions are incorrect. They simply came up against a better team.



Excellent summary, Ant.

PS Good luck to The Hatters in the new season, got a Tenner on them winning the league!

#3048604 - 07/09/10 05:53 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: HawkI]  
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Quote:
PS Good luck to The Hatters in the new season, got a Tenner on them winning the league!


Well, I'm not actually from Luton, I just live here, so I don't support them.

Be good to see them do well though, hope you win your bet smile

Last edited by Ant; 07/09/10 05:53 PM.
#3048736 - 07/09/10 09:07 PM Re: The Official South Africa 2010 World Cup Thread! [Re: Ant]  
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