After doing a bit of digging, I think I might see why marketed gameport-usb adapters don't work with the simped / cougar wiring. But it's not because the simpeds are "digital".

Their sensing may be digital (hall sensor vs pot) but the communication with the computer is still analog.

If an off the shelf unit can't function at all...it shouldn't be that difficult for someone to make a specific simped/C -> USB adapter. I'm capable of doing so but I'm not sure I'll have the time in the immediate future...and I don't have a set of simped rudders to play with.

Anyone know of someone in the Milwaukee, WI area who has a set, in case I decide to take a shot at making such a device?

This is the link to Cougar World description of rudder pinout and advice, how to make CH pedals work with Cougar:

Modding the CH pro pedal to activate the toebrakes.

Pin-out:



I guess it's an analog. Shouldn't be too hard to wire to the Leo Bodnar's BU0836:

Precision Joystick Controller BU0836

I'll make some more research, maybe even pull out my multimeter. :P

Maybe you can shot Mr. Hofmann from SIMPED an email. He could give you tips how to do that. But i think he is going to do an adapter by himself when he has some time left.

http://www.leobodnar.com/products/DFPG25conn/

Sokol1

I am not very savvy - and everyone is welcome to fill me in on this - in how the Warthog not being able to recognize and include third party USB rudders could limit the programability - they're just rudders after all - of the Warthog setup, but I am sure glad that recent sims allow multiple controllers to be used simultaneously and independent axes can be assigned individually.

I cannot believe TM actually failed to address this issue.

Maybe they will do better this time and release a set of rudders next year, unlike the RCS Pro that never saw the light of day.

Again, I don't own simpeds at this point, so I could have the names and background wrong...but I thought Mr. Hoffman was Dieter...who left this world a year or three ago.

If there's any truth to someone considering making such an adapter, I'm not going to start working on it...although I may spec out some parts. Even if I chose to sell it as an open source kit, I dunno if i could get the parts & boards for the prices of an established vendor.

If nobody steps up, I'll see if I can get something designed so people aren't left out in the cold, unable to use the rudders. I've already done all the "little pieces" in the past (making a device plug in to USB and get recognized as a game controller, digitizing analog inputs, etc)...but the USB work was ~ 5 years ago.

I've got time to look into it since the sticks aren't expected to be out until, as guod mentioned, September.

Although it is a nuisance Thrustmaster Warthog doesnt' have gameport rudder connection, it's not really surprising, since Thrustmaster doesn't offer rudders themselves.

I also don't play games that don't support more than one controller, so this is another non-issue for me. It's even easier to find axes if they are only two or three under one controller, instead of 8.

I have sent mail to DHS Electronic, asking if there is an adapter in the planning, or if they can provide pin-out diagram. Their site clearly states that the connection is not the same as gameport:

15pol Sub-D connector for HOTAS (no gameport!)

So I have no idea if they are simple analogue devices or if they have more complex digital connection to Cougar. But I doubt it, since they are third party device, and I don't think Thrustmaster took any part in development. I believe they simply have a bit different pin-out than gameport.

Mr. Dieter Hoffman sadly died in 2008, but I think his family continues the DHS Electronic company. They have all their rudders in stock except F-16/C and F-16/USB.

Bwaze:

I agree you're correct in that the simped won't work directly on a game port. I can see a few potential reasons for why - the cougar uses a couple of pins that are either slightly different from, or not used on, gameport connectors, so it's not as simple as plugging one into the other.

However, the key outputs we're interested in (rudder & toes) absolutely must be analog - because the Cougar is expecting analog inputs and you simply can't jam a digital signal onto an analog input and expect it to work.

The differences lie in things like the above diagram where Pin 5 is pulled down to allow detection of toe brakes. That pulldown is not part of the gameport spec and results would not be predictable.

However, you can see the Cougar expects the analog inputs on pins 11, 13 and 14, based on the resistance of 100K pots. Therefore, while the Simpeds may operate digitally, they've got to be using some sort of digital to analog conversion on the output side so that those analog equivalents are presented to the cougar.

Thus, it may be a very simple matter of making a custom DB15 to DB15 adapter from radio shack parts and wiring, and using a gameport adapter that is capable of reading 4 axes (dual joysticks...because the Cougar is basically looking for the inputs from 1Y, 2X and 2Y). 5 wires plus perhaps a jumper or two (the 3 axes, +5v and ground) ought to do the trick.

If such a gameport adapter (dual joystick to USB) doesn't exist...then someone will need to make one which isn't a big deal for anyone who's worked with USB and microcontrollers.

DHS electronics is still up and running and they keep producing the pedals. I think even the Cougar pedals but waiting times are long. They produced a small batch at the end of the last year.

the toe brakes are set as voltage dividers, while a standard gameport will read all channels as variable resistors. Incidentally, my DIY rudder pedals have the rudder pot (well, a hall sensor, but let's pretend is a pot) set up as a voltage divider too, and the Cougar seems happy with that setup. if you want to make an adapter you can probably hack a cheap USB joystick and rewire its analog channels to the simped pedals. the problem you may have is in assigning the proper axes in the simulator, though

It was mentioned before but maybe it hasn't sunk it. The HOTAS Cougar is detected & programmable by the T.A.R.G.E.T. software. So this allows you to leave the Simpeds connected to the Cougar stick base and program the rudder and toebrakes axes via T.A.R.G.E.T. My plan is to take the Cougar Stick board out of the base and place it inside of a smaller box, issue solved.

I think the implication was that some wanted to sell their Cougars for whatever they could to offset the upgrade.

This does, however, somewhat raise the value of a ragged out Cougar. (HOTAS Cougar, that is. )

I call dibs on the grip if you ever decide to sell it.

Teej, if you get an adaptor put together, I would be very interested in buying one!
I have absolutely no intentions of relegating my trusty ÜIInxt Cougar to a simple (and very expensive!) relay box, thats for sure..

Well, the DIY crowd can probably make use of a Bodnar board by the looks of it. Just a matter of hooking 5 pins or so from an 836 board up to a DB15 connector.

I have received answer from DHS Electronic to my questions. These are his replies:







It looks that it's not simple analogue connection, so hooking to Leo Bodnar's board is not an option. But the good news is that DHS Electronic are testing available digital gameport to USB adaptors. I have googled mentioned "SuperJoyBox7", and it looks an inexpensive Chinese adapter (under 10 $ or EUR):

Super Joybox 7 - Gameport to USB Converter

Another option is the mentioned use of the Cougar stick base (or even just a board from it) and configuring it in TARGET. But that's a bit pricey for an adapter.

That's what he told me last year. The analogue stuff wont work. But this time he cleary stated that they wont make their own adapter but test the available ones.
Doesn't matter anyway. With or without an adapter, i need an extra USB port, so i can keep my Cougar stick plugged in and hide it behind the tower.

Same here!
I plan on keeping my Evenstrain Cougar as a backup.

Unfortunately, I have no idear what all this components on the inside do.

I better ask DHS Electronic if there's any news regarding gameport to USB adapter.

Since Thrustmaster T.16000M can be integrated by T.A.R.G.E.T with Warthog, I think that USB Circuit of this stick (~35$)is the natural option to rewire old RCS (CubPilot offer HALL kit for this) or D.I.Y Rudder Pedal.



Sokol1

Sokol,
Absolutely fantastic idea of using the T.16000M's circuit board for DIY rudder integration. Getting the rudders visible to T.A.R.G.E.T. is a big step and this is a very cheap solution.

Pure genius! Sokol always thinking outside the box. Or maybe more so, inside the box.

Thumbs up.
I won't call in cheap, since everthing are 1/4 - 1/3 more expensive in Denmark, but a lot cheaper than buying a new set of Simped's.
Good idear Sokol.

Just note that the T.16000-M uses a tri-axis Hall sensor for the stick.

I could see it working for the main rudder axis, but not so much the toebrakes should one wish to add them.

It's the closest to an ideal solution I can think of for those of us without Cougars, though.

You guys might be interested in this post over on the Rise of Flight forum.

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=350&t=26026&p=363262#p363262