I need the best quality joystick I can afford (under $300) that the stick has 3 axis (x, y and z / twist). This is for a simulator project I'm working on, so I'm looking for rugged and good sensitivity. I ordered a CH Products Combat stick but it's only 2 axis (no twist). I looked at other "high end" joysticks (HOTAS), but the joystick also looks to only have 2 axis. The best I've found so far has been the Logitech 3D Extreme ($30) but I've read that some people have issues with its sensitivity / accuracy. The only other option I've found was to build my own with "industrial" components ($500+). Any other options or ideas?

Well, the Saitek X52 Pro is a HOTAS with a z/ twist for under $300. Whether it fits your criteria for "rugged", only you can decide. Many would say that a "z / twist" and "rugged" are a bit at odds with each other.

Like the Logitech offerings, on the Saitek you'll find people that swear by them, and other people that swear at them. My experience with Logitech 3d Extreme sticks was that they would not hold their calibration / the center would drift. (Oddly though, the cordless Freedom 2.4 didn't exhibit the same problem... but having batteries die in a fight sucks big time!) The problems I had with earlier Saitek HOTAS setups (pre- X52) were trigger / button failures. My X-52 (non-Pro version) has been rock solid. I put a lot of MechWarrior hours on it in the past (which involved a LOT of Z axis twisting) with no problems.

The newer Saitek X-65F HOTAS uses a Force Sensing stick, including a z axis. Essentially. it doesn't move, and will probably hold up well over time... but I think that HOTAS is up more in the $400 range. It has a split throttle unit, if that is any sort of bonus to you. Getting used to controlling by the force exerted instead of stick movement has been reported by some to be easier than many anticipate... But that is bound to vary from one person to another.

Good luck!

Another 3-Axis (twist rudder) is T.16000M .

Very precise.

Official site

http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=153&PlatformID=5

My review

http://www.hotas.gr/content/view/77/1/lang,en

Logitech 3DExtreme is also a good piece and fair price.I kept it for some weeks and I had no calibration problems,I can't tell after heavy use.

@Cy - I think I saw a review of the X65 that said that it didn't have z-axis / twist. Have you actually tried one and know that it does? I probably can't go with it anyways as I don't need / can't use the throttle and it's only sold with the throttle.

@335th - I hadn't considered the Thrustmasters as they look kinda wimpy, but I'm only basing that on photos, I've never seen one in person. How would you say it compares, construction wise, to the logitech?

Well my aspect would be a little biased.After many many years and thousands of flying hours with Cougar (metal),I feel that ever plastic joystick is cheap and delicate.

Of course this is not true.

Comparing these two joysticks,T.16000M is new and uses HEART technology,has zero dead zone,accurate and promises long life because of this technology.

A squad mate uses 3D Extreme for many years and had no problems at all. Small dead zone,smooth movements.

I would go for T.16000 just for HEART Technology.

Total cost is far below your limit of $300 so you can have them both!:D

PS. Check Flight X from Thrustmaster and one of the best choices would be the discontinued Microsoft Force Feed Back II.You should find some pieces on ebay but usually you will need more than $ 150.

I have not tried one yet. Every review I've seen indicates it has a z axis which senses the force of the twist applied to the stick.

Better yet, go to the source:

From: http://www.saitekusa.com/prod/x65f.htm (Emphasis added)
------------------------------------------------------------
Pro Flight X-65F Combat Control System

[snip!]

Product Features

Metal construction for the ultimate in realism and durability
Unique force sensing stick – all input is detected from how hard you push on the stick, just like in real modern day jet fighters. This includes a force-sensing twist rudder control
Features on-the-fly adjustment of the force settings for the stick – including separate adjustments for each axis of the stick for the ultimate in stick response configuration.
Dual throttle for finer control over twin engine jets, or lock the two throttles together for single engine fighters
Stick controls include:
3 x 8-way hats
1 x 8-way thumb hat
1 x trigger
2 x buttons
2 x pinkie switches
Throttle controls include:
2 x rotaries (incorporating push button controls)
1 x mouse hat
4 x 8-way hats
1 x 2 way ‘K’ switch
1 x scroll selector
1 x 4 position mode switch
Back panel with 5 more control switches, force-sensing strength selection, mode indication and mounting points for Saitek Pro Flight Instrument Panels (sold separately)
A potential total of 608 commands possible without ever moving your hands from the controls!
[snip!]
------------------------------------------------------------
[end quote]

However, since you don't need the throttle, that would be a big waste of money for your application. It sounds like the Thrustmaster T.16000M could be a good choice for you.

I had the Logitech 3d Extreme for over two years and loved it. The twist axis however stopped holding its center position within the first two years. I have since purchased the Saitek Cyborg X stick, it has a very sturdy twist axis grip. I have been using it for about five months. I like the fact that it can be adjusted to fit anyones hand and can be used by both the left and right hand.

And so if my wife ever injures my hand to keep me from flying I can still use the other hand.

Wired

My general impression is that Logitech stick construction quality nosedived after the first-generation WingMan sticks (those curvy, purple ones that had no twist rudder and mostly used gameports). Of special note is the WingMan Interceptor: three 8-way hat switches, a two-way rocker below the trigger, another button below that to be used with the middle finger, Hall effect sensors on the X and Y axes (they're a very strange shape-certainly not like CubPilot's "can" sensors-but there's no denying how precise and jitter-free they are), and a very ergonomic handle. If they had a twist rudder and a USB interface (it uses Logitech's digital gameport interface, so cheap analog gameport-to-USB adapters don't work), it would be damn near perfect.

I also have a WingMan Strike Force 3D. Externally, it's not that bad of a stick...then you notice some serious X/Y-axis pot play problems that causes one axis to move even when you're physically moving it only along the other. The pots also look exactly like the same cheap ones in the HOTAS Cougar. I have an idea of how to at least rectify the pot play, but I need to fashion up some linkages first. (Then there's that centering force slop that seems to be inherent to all Logitech FFB sticks...)

Regarding the $300 budget, anything in the $300+ range worth considering? This is for a sim I'm developing, so I'm looking for sticks to test with it that I can tell people they will work. So it has to be something currently available.

@Cy - I missed that thanks for highlighting it. It definitely looks like a nice piece of equipment. Does anyone know if the X-65F stick can be used without the throttle or that little control box? I wonder if that control box might be configured to control other things, such as alternate button controls, etc?

Saitek X52Pro is the most stick for the money. Has all the bells and whistles -- assuming you want to test all the bells and whistles ($150). Also, its popular. So, testing it directly tests what a lot of folks are playing. Some of the other HOTAS have a much smaller market share. I own one -- on my desk right now -- has no issues whatsoever, for me.

If 3 axis and excellent control are all one is seeking then the Thrustmaster PS3/PC T-Flight Stick X (under $30) is all one may need. And, at $27.75 w/free shipping its hard to make a "costly" mistake by picking it. I own one -- on my desk right now -- has no issues whatsoever, for me.

Thustmaster T-Flight Stick

Or, buy one of each for about $180