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#2980323 - 03/21/10 12:48 PM Someone please confirm or refute...
helagu Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Stoc: an' Barre
Use the Quick Mission Builder set up a flight.
Select Skirmish. (We're not interested in the fight, only flying characteristics so select enough planes in your flight to get rid of any opposition.)
Select your plane as Fokker DVII.
Select Wind Speed 5m/s (max).
Select Turbulance 0.
Other settings - don't care.

Select Start.
Select Description and note the wind direction. Remember ROF has wind direction backwards, i.e. direction is that wind going to, not from. (Alternatively, find an airfield with a windsock.)
Start flying and once you or your flight has got rid of the opposition, get to 150 feet or lower (50m or about 3x tree height). At this height it's easy to maintain constant altitude.
Set your RPM to about 1000. This should be sufficient to maintain flight level flight.
Fly so that your ground track is across the wind direction. With neutral rudder, maintain your altitude and keep wings level. Note your stick position.
Now turn 180 degrees to fly in the opposite direction across the wind. Again, neutral rudder, maintain altitude, wings level and ensure no change to the RPM. Note stick position.

As expected, the aircraft heading is a little up wind of the ground track. However, I have found it necessary to have a small but distinct stick pressure away from the wind in order to keep the wings level. The effect occurs to a some extent in other aircraft but the DVII is the most noticeable.

Can anyone confirm this effect, or do I have gremlins? And if it is there, can you explain it?

Thanks,
H


Edited by helagu (03/21/10 01:05 PM)

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#2980334 - 03/21/10 01:20 PM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: helagu]
BlueRaven Offline
Flight Instructor
Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Oklahoma
I haven't tried this, but I haven't noticed it before. The wind shouldn't have any effect on anything besides ground speed and track.

I don't think I have ever set any wind without setting some turbulence too.
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#2980577 - 03/21/10 09:28 PM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: BlueRaven]
Dart Offline
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Actually, wind did effect these birds, but only in minor ways. I recall reading an account where a pilot was nearly tumbled due to turbulence and wind - though he was caught near a thunderstorm.
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#2980840 - 03/22/10 09:20 AM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: Dart]
womenfly2 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 769
Loc: NH
Wind did effect these planes and light planes of today too. Depending on the wind your ground speed can suffer greatly in a head or quartering wind.

You can compensate two ways: 1. Yaw into the wind with rudder, this will make you fly a big arc an add to your ground distance. 2. Roll into the wind with aileron, wing down method, this will keep you on a straight path and will keep your ground distance to a minimum.

Remember ROF has wind direction backwards, i.e. direction is that wind going to, not from. .... when is this going to be fixed?
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#2980846 - 03/22/10 09:36 AM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: womenfly2]
Stickshaker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 130
Loc: Netherlands
Wind does affect the course relative to the ground and you may lower a wing to compensate, but it should not cause a wingtip to rise or drop by itself. Turbulence can, of course.

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#2980878 - 03/22/10 10:21 AM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: Stickshaker]
womenfly2 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 769
Loc: NH
....... wind will pick up the windward side wing if flying level. Will happen in a Cub or a D.vIII or a Dr.1.


Edited by womenfly2 (03/22/10 10:23 AM)
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#2980925 - 03/22/10 11:34 AM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: womenfly2]
BlueRaven Offline
Flight Instructor
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Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Oklahoma
I think you are all applying too much "real world" to the conditions he has set up.

In ROF if you set turbulence to 0 then there is 0 turbulence, there is never any off of trees and buildings and terrain.

Turbulence can rock a plane around a lot, however a constant steady wind with no gusts, once airborne, will not. It only affects ground speed and ground track.

Flying with a crosswind should not require any aileron pressure in either direction to keep the wings level. We are not talking about trying to line up on a runway in a crosswind or hold a specific ground track with a crosswind. Only flying level with a crosswind.

He mentioned it crabs into the wind correctly as expected, but the aileron pressure is not correct.

Remember this test has no turbulence and no gusts...
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#2980932 - 03/22/10 11:43 AM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: BlueRaven]
Ming_EAF19 Offline
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It only affects ground speed and ground track

Until you rotate an aileron more than two inches then your skirts blow up Marilyn

Ming
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#2980967 - 03/22/10 12:26 PM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: Ming_EAF19]
BlueRaven Offline
Flight Instructor
Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Oklahoma
Sometimes I wonder how many pilots we actually have here...

Here's straight from the horse's mouth. FAA-H-8083-25A Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Chapter 15 page 9 "Effect of Wind"

"It makes no difference whether the mass of air through which the aircraft is flying is moving or is stationary. A pilot flying in a a 70-knot gale would be totally unaware of any wind (except for possible turbulence) unless the ground were observed. In reference to the ground, however, the aircraft would appear to fly faster with a tailwind or slower with a headwind, or to drift right or left with a crosswind."

Link to online PDF if you want to check for yourself. http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/
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#2981020 - 03/22/10 01:44 PM Re: Someone please confirm or refute... [Re: BlueRaven]
Dart Offline
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Considering Womenfly2 has flown WWI replica planes, I'd take her word for it, as well as the historical accounts and lessons of the era.

In the "where to find WWI flight manuals" thread ( here ) there's a great link to one called "Practical Aviation." The author did a great job all the way around, describing complex ideas in a simple to understand way without shirking on technical details.

He states that wind will force both pitching and rolling on aeroplanes, which is contrary to the FAA. Which is right? Both! The culprit is the dyhedral angles built into the old gals of the teens, designs that simply aren't tolerated in modern aircraft.

Off topic, I'm really gratified to see that ailerons have their proper name - wing flaps - in the book as well. smile


Edited by Dart (03/22/10 01:48 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed link
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