Personally, that's a wee bit high for me until I get a new job. And I'm not too clear why such a mechanism is really needed, years of helo simming managed to get by without it. The engineering is impressive though.

I never had a problem using trim functions in sims or felt the need that a hardware solution was required. Although I think by the time DCS Apache rolls around it might be a nice to have.

Does the design allow it as an upgrade I wonder?

Well, you don't need this stick at all. In fact you don't need a joystick at all, keyboard control is all you need :P



The traditional solution in helicopters sims (with regular joysticks) so far has been to put the joystick where you want center to be, press the trim button then have to quickly return the stick to its actual centre (which causes the helicopter to move about a bit in the time it takes to move the stick back to centre. See some of all the discussion there has been about Black Shark's trimming system (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AobTSeYyTNo)). It's this having to return the stick to centre which is the part you wouldn't have to do if the stick had a mechanical force trim built in. Instead the centre would move where you have the stick. And as a result the helicopter wouldn't be making movements every time you trim.

You can simulate force trim with force feedback, and I have tried it in Black Shark. It does make controlling the helicopter much smoother, although it doesn't work perfectly (not sure if that is Black Shark or the stick's fault. But it doesn't always change the centre position to the correct position). But I assume this stick will not be force feedback?

That said, £130-150 to the cost is quite a bit, so I can understand if many feel that is too much for this feature.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

It does increase the price quite abit. Although it is going to be an option when buying, so you will be able to have the stick without it. I will design the base of the stick to allow the Force Trim system to be added at a later date. Although this might involve sending the unit back for installation, it wont be something that you can just 'clip' onto the stick to make it work. Its quite a complex system to put in. Will try and design a relatively easy way of putting it into the stick base.

No it wont be force feedback as in a real helicopter of this size you dont get the sort of feedback thru the controls that force feedback creates.

It something that some people will want and others wont. Without the system in, you will still be able to move the cyclic to a position and let go and it will stay there.

I'm familiar with the issues with force trim and Black Shark and how it works, it was never a problem before Black Shark. That's why I wonder why it's really needed. Just seems like a shiny thing because one sim worked better with it. I'm guessing that DCS Apache (is that confirmed?) will have the same kind of input system so if Rich goes into production with these units an off-the-shelf system should be really attractive. Not much competition on this side of the planet.

Consider some folks have been ripping apart expensive sticks that cost way more than £130 UKP and grabbing force-feedback Sidewinders from ebay to emulate high-end simulator controls. I suspect there's an element of guys in workshops wanting to make something different.

I can see how having accurate force trim controls in the Apache is really desirable but it shouldn't be required at all. It's like having an autopilot mode, but without the autopilot.


So yeah, nice to have, shouldn't be needed though. Customer option sounds cool.

The only confirmed future module for DCS, at this time, is DCS:A-10C.

Just a little update to bring this thread back up!!

Work has started to gather pace after trying to source the required parts. The Flight controls are in the process of having the shells vacuum formed ready for casting of the first prototype. Will post pics asap.

You can also keep track of all our developments on the website!

Cheers

Rich

Hmm, website seems to be down...

Hhhmmm so it is!! Better go and wake the Webmaster to get it sorted!

Will hopefully be back soon!!

Rich

Website back up!! The boffins have got it sorted!!

£400? That's expensive, all right, but given the US$-to-GBP exchange rate, shipping, customs, and such involved for any prospective American buyers, the pricing will get ludicrous!