I'd only get the Chinese guns for range toys.

But, I've heard their AKs are of good quality.

I find glowing beads too distractive most of the time.

The gun should shoot instinctively where you're pointing at and not where you're specificially aiming, a bead in that kind of shooting should be thought of as more of a reference point than anything.

What Rick is saying is a way to aim quickly and accurately by focusing on the front sight. It's really, really basic and fundamental to good shooting. It is about as fundamental as it gets as far as quick target acquisition and the dispatching of the same. I've taken numerous "advanced" shooting/tactical defense courses and that is just about the first thing they remind you in all of them. I'm sure anyone here will tell me if they have had different experience in private or military training.....

I'm not sure what you mean by the gun shooting "instinctively where you're pointing."

As an aside, and not to hijack at all, but I always read these threads and wonder how many of the gun owners are NRA members. If you're not, I would ask you to consider it as we need you now more than ever. I'm a life member and have been in NRA since 1990 or so....

Don

"Wingshooting" a different game than regular marksmanship, when dealing with moving, aerial targets you need to *point* a shotgun not aim it. The focus should be on the target, not the sight{s}, and the gun should shoot where you're looking at if your form and gun fit are good.

Now if you're dealing with slower moving or immobile targets on the ground, then conventional sight picture marksmanship comes more into play, but if things are close, fast and sporty then an experienced shotgunner will still be found pointing more than aiming.

Well, with skeet, where you hold your head is key. I basically have my head on the stock so the bead is right there but obviously you are having to lead and from that standpoint you need a little more target focus but to me anyway, the target is still somewhat a blur in shooting, for example, pheasant.

But, I see what you mean now anyway.

Also, why are you going with 10 inch rails/handguards?

Do you really need all that room? Just wondering.

I kind of like my plastic handguards. :p

Crane and Airdrop, you both make good points. Thing is, I have far too many years of closing one eye rapidly for marksmanship, when shouldering, that seeing SOMETHING from the front is important for me: I'm not using stereoscopic vision...but, with the green fibre glowing, I can see it fairly easily even when focused on the orange clay, and am getting good at judging the correct lead. Most can probably do with a simple white or brass bead and both eyes open, but I can't and probably never will! Just too ingrained response.

Nodding on the "instinctively where you're pointing."

About a zillion years ago a kind old retired Sergeant Major took pity on the poor Private that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a .45 on the familiarization course and taught me some really neat stuff, most of it "out of date," including firing using one hand only.

His first lesson was to have me point with my finger at the target. I did. "Did ya miss?" he asked, and then followed up with "then why didn't you point the pistol like it was your finger?" The second lesson was on how to hold the pistol so that I could point it correctly.

I can consistently hit center mass on a man sized target at 25 meters - gooder enough for me.

The downside is that I can't shoot two handed to save my life. Squaring up seems weird and awkward after learning and practicing holding a pistol out to the side, presenting the smallest silhouette to the target.

It's just tough to switch from a wingshooting background to conventional marksmanship or vice versa.

In the book Inside Delta Force by Eric L. Haney, it mentions how the early Delta guys at least were taught to dynamically wing/point shoot with all their weapons in a CQB type environment and were extremely good at it. However when they were subjected to an outside assessment for range shooting skills they were found to be mediocre appearantly.

Different ballgames.

I usually run rifle sights on my go-to 870, and they way I use that is to use them as a makeshift OEG sight up close, literally looking through the rear sight, and as normal for further or finer targets. For shooting stuff out of the air I'll take my longer bead sighted barrel any day though.

Any experienced shooter will tell you that differnt shooting involves different techniques. Also some of the teaching "styles" come and go with time and vogue. When I was taught quick fire, it was all about quick acquisition and putting the front sight on the target. Later they taught us the point and shoot for anything under a hundred yards. Then they changed that to 50 and under. In The School it was all about range and precision - and scopes changes it all.

I never was good with pistols. First military training with pistols was to shoot one handed since they said that was the way you would do it in real life. Then two-handed became the preferred method. Then the really good shots emphasized point and shoot. The high-speed guys I worked with kind of discarded all grip and stance training and it was all quick fire while moving, from cover and while doing entries. There is always the competing desires of speed versus accuracy. It is always a trade-off. Watch a benchrest shooter, a long-range military shooter, a hunter, a close combat military shooter, a law enforcement shooter, etc. They have different approaches to firing.

Look at how weapon carry has changed. When I was in we carried butt under the arm. Look at all the photos of troops now. It is all butt high over the shoulder. The ACOGs seem to have shooting styles changed as well. They were in their very infancy when I was in the game, and we were untrusting of them so stayed iron sight for close work. The wide adoption of collapsible stocks has changed things.

When I was working we had 3-9 ART scopes and Mil-dot was a sideshow. Now I find that the new higher powered variables with Mil-dots wotk better for me. I look back and wonder how we got target with 3-9 at 700 yards and beyond.

I have so little exposure to shotguns that I have no input.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of different techniques and styles depending on when, where, why, and who taught you. It is good to explore the differnt ways and find the one that works for you. Then work at it. A bad technique that is well practiced and familiar will outshoot a better technique that isn't continuously worked at.

Let the target prove what is effective.

edit: then there are physical issues to factor in. My eyesight is declining with age and my equipment and style is changing to match it. people with either large or small hands will do things a bit differntly.