Just a friendly reminder for those of you with HBO.

Meanie...




Wheels

I won't say anything other than it is pretty good and next Sunday can't come fast enough.

I know where I will be spending the next 9 Sunday's.

This will live up to Band of Brothers from what I have seen so far.

Awesome.

I wasn't moved- maybe because the script isn't based on research and real life testimony, it felt kind of flat, it makes use of standard devices for dramatic license;

And the script is based on 3 memoirs written by 2 of the main characters. There were some vets interviewed similarly to the intro to BoB as well, however I don't know if it will go into the same detail in those interviews since it isn't about just one unit.

I stand corrected- however, it doesn't move along in the same way as BoB- assuming that BoB is an accurate portrayal of real events, there's some very generic stuff in here, particularly added for drama:

Actually, I'm glad they showed the first spoiler you made mention of. While forbidden, most Japanese soldiers kept a diary, and they were very often taken to be sent up to the S-2 or kept as souveniers - which was also forbidden and widely done.

All I will say is this will be a must buy when it finally comes to DVD.

Definitely lives up to the quality of Band of Brothers.

Let me try it a different way-

Hmmm, the only thing I don't hope they do is leave out all the racist stuff during the war.

The Japanese really were the other, villified to the extreme. We didn't round up ethnic Germans and put them in camps, after all.

Then again, the Germans never published an order saying it was a-okay to kill and eat prisoners....whether or not rations were available. Though recinded, it was a practice that went on right until the day of surrender.

At any rate, the propaganda was swallowed whole in large measures, as there was little to refute it. The Japanese rarely took prisoners, and when they did abused them terribly. They refused to surrender. They were fanatical, and it was a rare soul that took any sort of pity on them. One respected (in the cautious way) and even feared the Japanese soldier, but relate to them? Not a chance.

[edit]

Maybe they'll go the other way. The "they're people, too" first reflection being discarded. Marines did not hesitate to send lit jellied fuel into bunkers, no matter how many times the inhabitants screamed as they burned alive; on the contrary, they were greatful that the man-packed flame thrower had been invented.

for a very good appraisal of the last year of the war-go and buy and read of course "Nemesis" by Max Hastings!
one of the best history books I have ever read!!!!

oh, and I downloaded the first ep and am looking forward to watching it-thanks for the first mini reviews

BL

I would also like to note to those of you who are planning on buying the DVD when it comes out, if you have a blu-ray player, buy the blu-ray version. I watched it in HD last night and it was beautiful.

Interesting about the racist stuff. You do know that the Japanese were more racist than their enemies. Even modern Japan is more racist.

An US/UK prisoner had about a 5% chance of dying in a German POW camp. The rate for those held in Japanese POW camps was about 40% with the survivors being not far from it and having injuries and health issues for the rest of their lives.

My response would be what I posted in this thread.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2926148/1.html

Read about the Christmas presents and later about the frog collector. I'm not sure about your cliche comments.

I'm compiling an exhibit from a local 2nd Marine Lt. who took part in Guadalcanal, we have his footlocker and all its contents which includes pictures of a Japanese boy and Japanese soldiers (holding guns). I'm pretty sure Lt. "Bevo" took these as keepsakes.

Much enjoyed this first episode, I thought it hit the right tone.

I don't understand criticism of the episode for...

I think it's pretty cliche- yes, of course, this does happen and can happen, my problem is the stylized drama thrown into less than an hour of each episode, like trying to wrap up every emotion, every philosophical argument ever written about war in 45 minutes. It can tend to forgo the documentary style in favor of a pedantic, anti-war artsy style; from an artistic and even realistic and gritty point of view, I think that gritty anti-war films probably make the best war films, since the rest are just pompous, bombastic, heroic, clinical and unrealistic. But there has to be a catch- for every time there was some personal epiphany here when collecting personal keepsakes and tokens of humanity, there are a million more times to 'reflect' on malaria, jungle rot, hunger, exhaustion, diarrhea, festering, septic wounds, fear, hate, that time honored tradition of taking ears and noses as trophies and so on- I want to see whether the balance is going to remain in the stylized tragedy, or go for more existentialism- really, that it's too absurd, too quick, to tedious, too tiresome, to reflect on until maybe later when it's over, since the absurd becomes all very common. Dialogue can do this as well- conversations are long winded, sound scripted, overblown, overly formal, not a normal conversational way people talk but delivering a monologue. War films often have ways of portending speech so as to point out the obvious- "Sarge! They're flanking us! Crap! And Johnson is hit!", or so as to explain things to the audience, as if there was an audience in the story with the characters, since again, it has to tell a story in only so much time and has to convey certain knowledge in a way that people normally don't talk, like bothering to explain esoteric jargon, military acronyms, operational level details passed on among the squad to cue the audience, and so on. World War II is not the same animal as some of the dust ups in the last 20 years or so. You had a clash of totalitarian systems and opposition of ideologies, irrational, uncompromising race theories, mixed in with modern, efficient, mechanized forms of warfare. This human stuff was balanced really quick with a lot of penchant for brutality.

So far it has lived up to my expectations...

I missed about the first 20 minutes of it - and not knowing where they were or in what stage of the war the story was picking up on, I was able to discern that it was Guadalcanal. I knew for sure after the Naval clash, and when they starting digging in around that inlet to prepare for the Japanese flanking maneuver, it dawned on me that I had played a similar scenario with Steel Panthers World at War game some years ago. I was intrigued at how similar the game layout was to the to the movie scene.

I also noticed that they've consulted some books on the matter, namely Helmet for My Pillow.

Liked it a lot. My question is, why did the guys that joined the service have the same haircuts when they were in combat that they had before they joined? No haircut requirements in boot camp back then?

Watching it right now on Fancast in HD for Comcast Customers

You sure about that?

http://www.gaic.info/internment_camp.html

We sure as hell put Germans in camps....

After all, the German Bund was a massive threat to America during the war, almost as much as the Communist Threat...

The battle depicted at the end of Ep1 was the Battle of the Tenaru.

What I found most striking was how well they depicted the aftermath, if you compare to the pictures from the real event, on the wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Tenaru

I watched it last night "on demand" and it certainly lives up to the hype technically. However, I thought the depiction of the Guadacanal campaign so far a little flat. The context surrounding the battle of the Tenaru river e.g. the importance of Henderson Field, and the potentially disastrous impact of the Navy's bugout after Savo Island seems just kind of mentioned in passing; the gravity of the situation on that night isn't really made clear IMO. Yes it's a "grunts eye view" but the Marines knew that a major attack was coming. In the show it seems like they just happened to dig in for the night and the Japanese happened to show up. I think the old John Garfield vehicle "Pride of the Marines" (an autobiograhpy of Al Schmidt) did a better job with the Tenaru in some ways. The old movie certainly captured the tension leading up to the battle much better. Definitely worth a look if you see it on TCM.

Interested to see how it picks up next week with "Bloody Ridge

Pls all, remember no spoilers! Use the spoiler tag.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY DID I HAVE TO REVEAL THAT!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the link!

"It is funny, but from watching the episode, I got the impression that the Marines were heavily outnumbered. In fact, there were 11,000 marines and only 900 Japanese..."

This is slightly out of content. Roughly 1 battalion of a regiment (Japanese) attacked what they thought was a small force (2 battalions of a Marine regiment with artillery support) in a very poorly concieved frontal assualt. They must have thought that the Marines were no match for them and attacked a prepared position across a water barrier without reconnaissance. This was the first of a series of mistakes that lead the common Japanese soldier to call the Canal "Death Island".


If you want a good fight and first rate WW2 propaganda watch "Guadalcanal Diary" or "Beach Red", where the Marines battle the "dirty rotton Nips..." Otherwise give "The Pacific" a chance. But IMHO, no movie/mini-series or teleplay can really give an truely accurate picture of a battle. The noise, the chaos, the smell, the fear can't be experienced second hand.

Not really out of context from what I read in the wikipedia page. Had they known they were facing 11,000 they would have waited for back-up, I'd say.

i download but only skiped parts and i can see this show has low production values when you use the old beaten to death lettuce sound effect for body being torn apart...specially on a explosion....

I think iron mike meant that not all 11,000 Marines on the island were involved in the battle.

Rgr that. Also, there were more than 900 Japanese soldiers and Marines on the island at that time too.
And you can not question their bravery, only their leadership.

finally watched, and is it me, or was there a scene with a beheaded head witha penis on his mouth ?? !
O_o

Sadly there was.

And why is using that sound effect "low production value"? I don't know how a body being torn apart sounds, nor does 99.99999% of the people watching the show. I also couldn't care less about how that sounds in real life, or if it's not 100% authentic in the show.

I mean, it's not *real* death screams we hear, so every death cry is obviously "low production value", because they didn't gut-shoot some poor extra for the authentic sound. When you have to nitpick at that level to find a fault it just becomes silly, IMHO.

i was joking becouse it was really cheesy, its the kind of think you'd expect to hear in a horror movie.
never heard anyone being exploded either but i doubt you can hear the muscle dismantle over the explosion, and from what i experienced once on the road, bodies being torn apart dont sound like that at all, ever dislocated a bone with that low thump sound ? sorta like that. (poor horsy)

Newsreels of liberated POWs in German camps did not show the signs of starvation seen in survivors of Japanese camps.

What may be interpreted as racism could be the resolve shown as a result of the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor and the fact that aside from the West Coast there were not many Japanese in this country compared to the number of Germans and Italians throughout the U.S. who had established themselves as loyal American citizens, men like John Basilone being one of them.

The hatred for our enemies was mainly concentrated on Hitler as far as Germany was concerned whereas with Japan it seemed to involved the entire country.

Just finished reading "With the The Old Breed", Eugene Sledges Autobiography of his Pacific years. According to him that happened and he saw it.

I've watched both episodes and I'm having the devil's own time telling the characters apart (other than the fact that Basilone is the one hauling the Browning MG around) and keeping track of the plot line. OTOH I haven't read either of the books on which the series is supposedly based- is it easier to follow if you have?

Compared to Band of Brothers, the production values appear great (the opening theme music seems eerily similar even though the tune is completely different) but the story is pretty much incomprehensible so far (and I know more about Guadalcanal than I do about Peleliu, Tarawa or any of the other islands before Iwo).

Last night was definitely heavy on the action part. I haven't been able to identify with any of the characters yet like I did with Band of Brothers. I don't know if that is a product of my having seen BoB so many times or not though.

Or maybe the fact that there have only been 2 episodes so far? It takes a while for character arcs to develop you know.

they have a sentimental professor, a gun ho yankee, the great leader ,the funny guy, the seasoned vet (or at least look so) and the rookie, how hard is that to identify ?

edit

I wish I could have been a seasonal vet. That way I could have avoided the worst weather.

Finnally some action, gruesome death, stupid cheese lettuce effect yet again.
italian dude with machine gun burn is my favorite. i'll bet he is dead by episode 4

In Band of Brothers, the focus was on the men - hence the long, very long wind up (Curahee) before the pitch (Normandy) and the tight scripting to make sure we understood not only who was who, but how they interacted with each other and why it was important. The pivotal events in Bastogne weren't of stopping the Germans or the battle scenes - it was Toye and Garnier (sp!) getting hit, Buck suffering battle fatigue, and Spears taking over the platoon in the attack on Foye.

The Pacific seems to be more about events, and how small actions led to larger successes. They've focused on a few guys, but we're forced to play catch up in how they fit in and their relationships with one another. They put stuff in context quite a bit - why they were where they were doing what they were doing, something that was glossed over pretty quickly in Band of Brothers.

So I'm taking Band of Brothers to be a narrative of just one select group of Soldiers and The Pacific to be the story of every Marine, if that makes sense.

I wouldn't say it is better or worse, just different.

I was thinking the same things about the characters and having trouble keeping up with the secondary characters. I can keep up with Sledge, barely in it so far but its the kid from Jurassic Park), Leckie, and Bassilone. Anyone else and it is pretty much a crap shoot if I know who they are or not.

John Basilone meets Fiorello La Guardia... priceless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FsKhy2uM9w

After his first tour of duty and war bonds tour Basilone could have stayed home... Went back and died at Iwo Jima, the very first day of the battle, what a sad story.

Looking forward to the Peleliu part of the series, for personal reasons; spent a few days on the island in 2007 for a diving trip, but I had been reading up on the battle and devoted one full day to a tour of the battlefield... it's real living history, an unforgettable experience. Hope the links work.

Ciao,
nibbio

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...tml#Post2203900

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...tml#Post2203907

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...tml#Post2203915

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...tml#Post2204581

Interestingly, the narrative fits with the history of the US involvement in the Theatres of Operations. In continental Europe the US ground forces arrived quite late and took a good while before they went into action. In the Pacific they were thrown into it from the get-go. Same with the series.

Priceless, yep. And it also shows the big difference between politicians then and now. "You must make SACRIFICES to buy war bonds!" La Guardia says ...Compared to doling out huge tax cuts when going to war with Terrorism 60 years later...

La Guardia was a WWI vet by the way, he flew bombers in the Great war.

I haven't seen The Pacific yet, but this is a problem I have with a lot of war movies/series. With their helmet on they all look the same to me

This second episode reminded me of something from MOH-Pacific Assault..

Seriously however, both my 18 year old son and I watched it together.. When I asked what he thought, he says "well, it's kind of hard to follow"..

I wasn't necessarily surprised at his reaction. I'm leaning toward a disconnect on the characters too as Bluefish suggests.. although I think it will come with time.

Band of Brothers was an easier story to follow because it dealt with a particular unit where the characters remained fairly intact throughout the episodes. In this one, there seems to be new characters appearing at random and you feel like you should know who they are - or rather you feel like you've missed something... maybe reading the books beforehand would help. I'm kind of getting "Flags of Our Fathers" vibes from it as well.

The strongest point it has so far is the production quality. It seems to project authenticity better than most war flicks - certainly better than those cheesy ones from the '70's.

jeez how is this hard to follow ? then you people complain of dumbed down movies and series........

Bravo.. brilliant reposte..

If you have to ask, then you didn't read..

It will be a long wait for the DVD release....I'm really enjoying it.

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

Anyone that has spent any time watching "The Military or History Channel" should already know who Basilone and Sledge and Puller are.

Also, Chesty wrote a book Called "Once a Marine" that should be read if you are interested in the Marines.

With all due respect..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Phillips

was my great uncle..

Actually I missed the 1st half hour of the program last weekend. Perhaps that's when they introduced the characters? I haven't really picked up on the names too much from the program until now... that might be one of the problems. You see, I read the book "Band of Brothers" before I saw the series.

And you're right, I wouldn't have known those names until you pointed them out to me. Though probably sometime in the distant past I read a dry text of their actions - (I'm finding with OA, I'm not good with names anymore) Certainly if I were a scholar on the Marine campaigns in the Pacific as you seem to portray yourself as then yes, they would ring a big bell. But most of my reading was confined for years to military aviation history and more recently, the American Civil War.

ouch i feel bad, just read on magazine about the show, that my favorite character so far that i guessed would be dead by ep 4 , is actually someone who died in 45 in iwo jima landing, so is very possible the character will die by ep4 or 5 :/

Balde, I know it must be difficult, but PLS PLS no spoilers, ok?

This week's episode was fantastic! Next Sunday can't come fast enough.

I am in AWE with what Speilburg, Hanks, et. al. can do with film making. Outstanding!