95% posts by 1% of people means something different than your interpretation

Again, it is not buried. It is here. There is absolutely no reason for every single thread posted on a forum should be sidetracked by discussions not directly related to the subject posted. Unfortunately repeatedly it happened. It has happened on multiple forums covering multiple games. This was the solution. Don't like it? Make your own site, pay for the maintenence and then you can run it however you want.

This is the last statement I am going to make on this. I don't want to be rude but this thread was set up so people can discuss these things more freely and so game forums can discuss game aspects without having to argue DRM every time. Sorry but enough was enough.

Hello DRM sufferers !!!

I can understand a game reviewer not wanting to get involved with discussing such issues however:
1. A game review is the opinion of that reviewer
2. DRM is part of the game (i.e.you need it by definition - to operate the game).
3. It's fine to comment if you think it's good or not, most sane members would welcome opinion.
4. Individuals who rave irrationally and criticise personnaly should be axed.

I believe a review should be fair - and as far as I can tell to date they are (and it is appreciated); however to hide this (DRM) issue away like some sort of porn and not comment on the DRM as part of a reviewers opinion is (I feel) a failure to the members and visitors alike.

Please don't misunderstand my view, I do realise the reasons why you have scoped the DRM issue this way; I just feel it should be more open. Why? - well it will never chage if this is percieved to be some covert acceptance of draconian DRM control by sweeping it away somewhere and not stating its a bad (or good) thing.

My opinion I'll go and eat worms now!! ATB Mort

Actually, DRM is discussed in reviews. It's even discussed in previews.

What isn't allowed is a lot of DRM discussion within forums. It wasn't a decision taken lightly; DRM discussion just became so pervasive and poisonous that forums couldn't function normally.

In the Army we called it "good order and discipline," and it couldn't be maintained with DRM issues spamming them.

A blanket "don't discuss DRM at all" is a disservice. Having a centralized location where DRM in all sims can be discussed isn't. Indeed, it is more of a service, IMHO. For example, I don't care for sub sims, but UBI's plan has broader applications and implications - discussing SH5 here will save me catch-up time if the same plan is implemented for a sim genre I care about.



Far from being "swept away," the top sticky thread in each forum announces both the policy and where DRM discussion is.

"Acceptance" isn't the right word, I think. Acknowledgement is more on the point. "Stating its a bad (or good) thing" is a false choice; some DRM (low level copy protection stuff like Black Shark's) is a pretty good compromise, IMHO, while it appears UBI has screwed the proverbial pooch on SH5.

The question, then, is when does DRM implementation overshadow the actual goodness of the sim it is trying to protect? When is it a minor concern? As you wrote, this is an individual opinion, and readers would be very much disserved if SimHQ had an official blanket position on DRM.

I truly believe that the vast majority of folks don't give a rat's tail end about DRM so long as it is invisible and doesn't interfere with playing their simulations.

I guess Tom didnt like my comment since he basically telling me to go "F" myself and start my own site if I don't like it. If you were to take a look at subsim site their SH5 forum has 2 threads out of the 40 threads on the first page that are dedicated to DRM and folks honor that. I guess what I am saying is that most of us in the sim community are pretty old and have a certain amount of maturity and can follow rules. Their forum isn't "poisoned" and is functioning fine with DRM being able to be discussed for the game that it's attached to without having to jump around. I am 42 right now, I have been simming steady for the last 15 years. I thought I found a home here at SimHQ when Combatsim started charging for their forums (about 98-99?) not sure exactly when, but I remember being able to post here as a guest so I didnt register for a long time. This is the first time I have seen such "attitude" from a moderator towards a basically harmless post on my part, and that's a shame.

It isn't poisoned right now because the rules changed and became very clear.

You've been around the site, and hopefully have seen what lead to the decisions.

Post One: "I found out the best settings for max performance and quality; here they are:"
Post Two: "Did you find out how to stomach the DRM requirement?"
Post Three: "I have an ATI card; it doesn't work for me. These are my settings:"
Post Four: "You shouldn't have bought the sim to begin with - it only encourages pervasive DRM."
Post Five: "Look, can't you leave it alone, already? This is a thread about settings for the sim."
Post Six: "How can you discuss a game without mentioning this?"
Post Seven: "Apparently we can't; thanks for ruining yet another thread."

Note the bolded quote. We saw this over and over again - the excuse for derailing every thread was that it was a legitimate topic, as one simply can't "discuss a game without mentioning it." Any aspect of a sim.

This is SimHQ, not DRMHQ.

LS Force 10 has a point and those criticizing him have a point too, but the net result is that any potential newbie- (almost always one who is looking at the forum without signing in), looking at the threads that he can see, will see almost nothing of the views about DRM of this sim.

I suppose it's possible he may not even be aware of any DRM until he has bought the game!- but he sure as hell would be if discussion of it was in the main threads.

We are told now that a new patch allows single play without internet connection- but that isn't the same thing to all people is it?

All my sims are loaded and played offline whenever I wish to, and I could do so whatever happened to the original marketing company. That's what a lot of folks consider to be true offline play.
As i understand it, that is not what you can do with ROF, even now.
Until i can do that, I will not buy ROF. If I could do that, I would buy ROF.

If Neoqb facilitated that kind of offline play, then I suspect their sales would take off. Hopefully, one day, they too will believe it.

Dart
Thank you for your kind reply.
Of course DRM is covered in reviews, but the same way an opinion may be expressed on, for example graphics quality (i.e. what one person thinks is "acceptable" another will call "dated") perhaps a comment on the DRM methodology (yes good or bad in the opinion of the reviewer) could be expressed.
I know why the subject is avoided and why one hesitates to court radical opinions on this subject, I feel most people (without an axe to grind) would welcome information of any kind to enable them to consider the issues in as dispassionate a way as possible.

Sadly there are, (and I acknowledge this) people out there who can't wait to be outraged and vent their spleen to no effect; other than make a response to comments of an extremely personel and unnecessary nature, thus souring any positive and possible advances in the way of compromises or solutions to this particular problem.

In the main I believe 95% of our members and visitors do not fall into this category and could form their own opinions better, and maybe canvass on behalf of their consumer rights more positively if
they felt the opposite to your view exressed below ---------------------------------which is-----
" the majority of folks don't give a rats tail about DRM so long as it's invisible and doesn't interfere with playing their simulations "

It's where you and I differ in opinion and I will leave it be because we're all entitled to an opinion, and I do respect yours.

Thank you for listening.

Best Regards Mort

No, I didn't like it. I get tired of explaining myself again and again (even in this particular thread I explained our reasons) and I still get the same old argument. This was discussed earlier in the same thread. I shouldn't have to explain myself three or four times in the same thread.

And as for the maturity issue. The reason this forum was started was because there were plenty of people that weren't mature enough to discuss the game without putting their .02 on the issue. As I have said about five times in this thread the admins and the moderators got sick of having every thread degenerate into arguments over Starforce or online requirements or whatever. We had people here that posted nothing else but arguments over DRM schemes and almost intentionally derailed threads concerning the game. Yes, 95% of the people here are mature enough to discuss stuff but there are about 5% of the group that feel DRM is more important than anything else and anyone that buys a game with such a scheme is a loser.

Someone who actually has a question concerning a game shouldn't have to wade through three pages of DRM arguments to find an answer to his question. A person who posts screenshots and actually states he likes something about a game shouldn't have to explain why he is such a sellout for buying the game. The decision to purchase a game is up to the consumer and no one should feel like they have to justify purchase of a game do some self appointed watchdog. Frankly, we all got sick of it.

Yes I get short about this. I get sick of posting explanations to arguments identical to what you posted only to have them thrown back at me. As I said, don't like it, don't like our policies, don't come here. Sorry but it isn't going to change. Just because you keep hitting the same button again and again doesn't mean we are going to change anything.

Just for fun i'll even quote the next post that brings it up again

I beg to disagree. The first thing a newby would look for is a review or a preview of the game itself.
There is stated in big nice letters what the DRM is and does. It states that in a couple sentences but enough to put a average working brain on its toes.

If I get interested in something I browse for more information. Simple.
SimHQ is a great repository of information and opinions but not the only.
So when I look for informations on something I browse the entire net for them.

No disservice here. At all.




Are we playing dumb here?!
I mean seriously, try to google Silent Hunter 5 and see how many results are not poining at a discussion to DRM (which is exactly why threads are being blocjked to non signed in people...).




What's your point here? That DRM are bad?
OK, could be. So? Wasn't this thread about a alleged disservice?