#2956199 - 02/11/10 12:59 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: NattyIced]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18,549
piper
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Raleigh,NC
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This forum needs an emoticon that stomps it's feet, crosses it's arms and plops it's ass on the ground.
There were fewer children in my kindergarten than here. Sorry man, your prolly referring to me, but this is a really good flight sim and can't stand folks trying to trivialize the workings of it. Developing a flightsim isn't rocket science, but it's a heck of alot more involved than "hello world" too.
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#2956251 - 02/11/10 03:15 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: piper]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
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The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events. More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.comFrom Laser: "The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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#2956318 - 02/11/10 07:22 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: piper]
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 587
MIG77
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Finland
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Developing a flightsim isn't rocket science, but it's a heck of alot more involved than "hello world" too.
That reminds me. One of the devs in WWIIOnline has/had line something like this in his signature: "This is rocket science. It just looks like game"
You can get used to everything, but icicle in the a**. It melts before you get used to it.
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#2956396 - 02/11/10 02:26 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: piper]
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 91
koala26
Junior Member
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Now since you seem to think it isn't hard to implement a DF server, go for it! Freshman college courses tell you how to make a server in 20 lines of code. How hard could it possibly be koala?
Com'mon superstar, be a part of the solution instead of just whining.
LOL, you don't know my background. I'd code you under the table in a heartbeat. It isn't hard. Keep acting like it is. Like I said, it's obvious you don't have a clue. Give me the existing source code and I'll enhance it for DF servers quite quickly. I'll be a part of the solution. Give me the base code and I'll do it for free. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Are you?
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#2956419 - 02/11/10 03:13 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: koala26]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18,549
piper
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Raleigh,NC
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Now since you seem to think it isn't hard to implement a DF server, go for it! Freshman college courses tell you how to make a server in 20 lines of code. How hard could it possibly be koala?
Com'mon superstar, be a part of the solution instead of just whining.
LOL, you don't know my background. I'd code you under the table in a heartbeat. It isn't hard. Keep acting like it is. Like I said, it's obvious you don't have a clue. Give me the existing source code and I'll enhance it for DF servers quite quickly. I'll be a part of the solution. Give me the base code and I'll do it for free. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Are you? koala, I'll make a public apology to you for my comments last night. Was childish even for me... Would be nice for everyone to pitch in and help finish what neoqb started, but they will never give their source code away. You would think in these times, they could encapsulate their models into some sort of library that could be made public.
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#2956537 - 02/11/10 05:58 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: piper]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
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Hell, koala, brain surgery isn't hard if one is a brain surgeon!
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events. More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.comFrom Laser: "The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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#2956589 - 02/11/10 07:42 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: koala26]
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,979
Buddye1
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It is always strange to me when people make comments about a program concerning how easy it is to implement a feature.
I have been a developer on BOBII since 2002 and worked on the Space Shuttle program for 14 years. BOBII is over 1 million SLOC of complex C++ code, BOBII design/code is undocumented and thrown together by game programmers on small budgets, and it is maintained by volunteer programmers. I find that nothing is easy in BOBII and I bet the same is true for ROF.
The On-Board flight software for the Space Shuttle was about 700K SLOC in a language called HAL (special compiler developed for NASA). It was well documented, well tested (verified as Man-Rated), and well maintained and re-verified before each mission on a hugh budget compared to games (or about anthing else).
We have strarted many volunteer programmers on BOBII for maintenance and implementing new features. We have had few stick around as the job is just too hard and takes too much time to understand the BOBII design and BOBII code well enough to implement anything. BTW, we are always looking for volunteer programmers to help us. Just stop by the A2A BOBII forum and ask to help and we will get you started.
I find all this big talk about how easy it is to do the ROF developers job is mostly just "big talk and no work".
Sorry about the small rant. BTW, these ROF developer have earned my respect by their performance on new versions/releases over that last 6 months.
Last edited by Buddye1; 02/11/10 07:46 PM.
Intel I7 920 processor (2.66GHz, 8MB cache), 6GB DDR3 Triple Channel @1333MHz, 1.8GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295, Sound Blaster X-Fi PCI Sound Card, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit , CH Fighter Stick & Pedals ,TrackIR4 Pro thanks to BobII crew.
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#2956632 - 02/11/10 08:37 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: koala26]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
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OK Everybody!!!! Groupe Hug! Groupe Hug!! Hmm. "Groupe" could either mean group or grope. The first one I'm on board with. The second one, not so much I had no idea they were mutually exclusive!
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events. More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.comFrom Laser: "The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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#2957016 - 02/12/10 09:19 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: Buddye1]
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 971
uhoh6
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Sun Valley, Idaho
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I find all this big talk about how easy it is to do the ROF developers job is mostly just "big talk and no work".
Sorry about the small rant. BTW, these ROF developer have earned my respect by their performance on new versions/releases over that last 6 months. It's just frustration. The bottom line is that at the moment you see very few people online, and as mentioned in this thread, some quite respectable people who fly offline have put the sim on the shelf. We have one server in the USA. Some very nice people there, and I certainly apreciate that it is there. However, flying is frustrating with alot of time spent loading, short missions, etc. As you say, 6 months. Some beautiful new planes, which generate revenue, and many fixes. But the basics of respawn are still a distant dream. TIR remains a problem for some and there seems to be no effort to work with natural point to get it working as well as it does in DCS BS, which really has set the standard for TIR, FMs, graphics, avionics, and ground war. Online it's still il2. For campaigns f4, after all these years, has never been remotely approached. No wonder there are a few grumps around. Those who are complaining just want to fly, and the fact they are still around shows how much. Acting like they are being unreasonable in expecting functionality we have seen for years is crazy. The devs are one the case. Good. But don't expect the frustration to end until the sim is up to reasonable expectations. And dissing the pilots as "tough nuts" because they really want a high fidelity WW1 sim with online capability good enough to support a community is really not the greatest PR. If the ROF guys have any desire to appease them, for business sake, the plan should be to agknowledge their concerns and keep them in the loop. A thin skin never helps in sales or public relations. I have a few extra AC, camel etc., but at this point I will wait till I really have some fun online. Then I'll buy the rest.
Last edited by uhoh6; 02/12/10 09:43 AM.
E8600 Asus P5E Radeon 4870x2 Corsair 4gb Velociraptor 300gb Neopower 650 NZXT Tempest Vista64 Samsung 30" 2560x1600
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#2957026 - 02/12/10 09:57 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: koala26]
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,618
Ming_EAF19
Babelfish Immune
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Babelfish Immune
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London
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they flew to the moon with much less than we have ine ONE home PC today - all NASA, including ground controlYes those 24 people did wonders didn't they with that 300 million dollar budget I'd code you under the table in a heartbeat.lol I've heard it all now Ming
'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
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#2957033 - 02/12/10 10:52 AM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: Ming_EAF19]
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Catfish
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Where the ocean meets the sky
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Hello,
" ... they flew to the moon with much less than we have ine ONE home PC today - all NASA, including ground control ..."
This was written by me, not Koala. What i really meant is that the most simple piece of software today is a lot more complex, compared to with which they flew to the moon. So it IS indeed more complicated to develop a sim, than it was back then to fly to the moon - computer-wise, that is. Just reacting to this " ..it is not rocket science". It's actually much worse. But Ming ole boy, i guess you know exactly what i meant.
Greetings, Catfish
Last edited by Catfish; 02/12/10 10:54 AM.
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#2957052 - 02/12/10 12:25 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: Catfish]
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 218
KnowBreaks
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Member
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Posts: 218
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*sigh* I'm probably going to regret this...
"Yes those 24 people did wonders didn't they with that 300 million dollar budget" Ming, as usual, your ability to completely 'muddy up the water' amazes me. It's very common to bemoan that the NASA program (and much of military aviation) has it's seemingly exorbitant costs. But, if you look into it, you'll find those costs were usually driven by requirements - the excess, if any, being in the requirements, not the attempts to meet the requirements.
Not to mention that they were doing something that really had never been done. Unlike this flight sim business, where -as has been pointed out many times in this thread - much of this stuff has been done, sometimes years ago.
I have to go with the "It's just not that hard, given what we know exists already" group here - and yes, I also work in technology; though I am not a Developer, proper, I do have a couple decades experience dealing with development and developers. It's neither a question of how many people, nor the budget...it's a simple question of the will to do something, and talent. In my estimation, NeoQB either lacks the will, or the skill.
"Those who are complaining just want to fly, and the fact they are still around shows how much. Acting like they are being unreasonable in expecting functionality we have seen for years is crazy. The devs are one the case. Good. But don't expect the frustration to end until the sim is up to reasonable expectations."
By God...well said, indeed. Take note, RoF team / 777 / all you die-hard rose-colored glasses folks.
System Specs: Intel Core i7-930, OC @ 3.36G Scythe Grand Kama Cross HS/F Gigabyte GA-X58-USB3 mainboard 2x Seagate 500G Barracuda (RAID0; C:) 6G OCZ Gold Edition DDR3/10666 Triple Channel eVGA GTX570 1280M GDDR5 PCIe2.0x16 AMCC/3Ware 9650SE SATA 3G/s RAID controller: 4x OCZ 30G SATA 3G/s Vertex SSD (RAID0; D:) Corsair TX-750 PSU, CoolerMaster CM-690 case; 4x 120mm fans TrackIR 5 & TrackClip Pro Windows7 x64 Home Premium
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#2957069 - 02/12/10 01:11 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: KnowBreaks]
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 130
Snuffy
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Member
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FLA First Coast
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Hey Buddye1 ... I understand the complexities of what you're going through. I've tried early in my life to learn programming. Started wtih basic, went to assembly, then attempted fortran. I use to be able to work in lisp, and I've tried visual basic and touche lightly on C ... I feel for you guys. Mebbe its time to put BoB aside and start from scratch and come up with a nice WW2 all enclusive bomber sim. *HINT* (I've been beating Scott over the head for this from before you joined the team ... ) I still have asperations that A2A will develope that sime of all sims I just mentioned.
Snuffy - Ted
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#2957093 - 02/12/10 02:26 PM
Re: No update today, but some very tasty news none the less.
[Re: Snuffy]
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,618
Ming_EAF19
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London
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" ... they flew to the moon with much less than we have ine ONE home PC today - all NASA, including ground control ..."
This was written by me, not Koala. Yes I know What i really meant is that the most simple piece of software today is a lot more complex, compared to with which they flew to the moon. So it IS indeed more complicated to develop a sim, than it was back then to fly to the moon - computer-wise, that is. Just reacting to this " ..it is not rocket science". It's actually much worse. But Ming ole boy, i guess you know exactly what i meant.Yes I know2 Ming
'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
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