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#2935829 - 01/08/10 10:44 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Arthonon]
PanzerMeyer Online   centaurian
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Originally Posted By: Arthonon

In the old one, Pike had some sort of accident involving radiation, and that's why he was not only stuck in a wheelchair, but burned beyond recognition (handy for when you can't get the original actor) and couldn't talk.


That was my understanding. In both alternate timelines he ended up being wheelchair bound but the causes were different.


Edited by PanzerMeyer (01/08/10 10:44 PM)
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#2936648 - 01/10/10 09:52 AM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: PanzerMeyer]
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I figured through some of the weird holes in the story pretty much on the fly:

1) The Romulans completely mucked things up, so Pike never enters the situation that brings on the blinky chair - though it still might, as it seemed that Kirk was out of the Academy already for some time when it happened. (Nice homage in the end where he's in a wheelchair).

2) Naming Kirk as second to Spock was a function of physical proximity and familiarity on Pike's part. It was all on the fly, and Kirk was a Firstie in a ship full of them - but one Pike at least knew his name. Stuff like that has happened in history - selection of chain of command isn't based on who's best qualified, but who can get the baton passed to them. It also shows Pike doesn't really know which true officers are on the ship! Anyhow, it's second in command for what he thinks will be a very short duration. When Pike returns from negotiations, Kirk will be third in command, which puts him in charge of the mess, the suppy room, and the gym.

3) Dumping Kirk on Hoth was irrational and, as Kirk pointed out, illegal. That's the point. Spock has lost it - forget the veneer of control, he is as emotionally compromised as Old Spock says he is. They scoped that there was a Federation outpost and dumped him 14 KM from it, which is pretty good considering how big that planet is (Earth norm gravity); I figured the recording was canned advice - Line 3,875: "IF Federation base <=400 KM, THEN 'stay with capsule.'" Somewhere in the research station is an ignored light blinking and a disconnected speaker NOT whooping; hell, Scotty and the bug thought a ship had landed outside of the station and they'd just missed hearing it ("you're not my replacement?").

4) I'm thinking the new Star Trek movie is unique in that it is the first time that the time streams have been polluted and they didn't seek to "put it right;" they just accept that everything will be different.

5) What was weird to me was Spock doing the hippidy-dippidy out of season or whatever the hell Vulcans go through every seven years. Maybe I'm missing something and it is a matter that they must get it then and it is optional otherwise, but my understanding was that Vulcans were pretty much eunics otherwise.
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#2936701 - 01/10/10 11:08 AM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Dart]
Arthonon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dart
I figured through some of the weird holes in the story pretty much on the fly:

1) The Romulans completely mucked things up, so Pike never enters the situation that brings on the blinky chair - though it still might, as it seemed that Kirk was out of the Academy already for some time when it happened. (Nice homage in the end where he's in a wheelchair).

Yep, my take too.

Originally Posted By: Dart
2) Naming Kirk as second to Spock was a function of physical proximity and familiarity on Pike's part. It was all on the fly, and Kirk was a Firstie in a ship full of them - but one Pike at least knew his name. Stuff like that has happened in history - selection of chain of command isn't based on who's best qualified, but who can get the baton passed to them. It also shows Pike doesn't really know which true officers are on the ship! Anyhow, it's second in command for what he thinks will be a very short duration. When Pike returns from negotiations, Kirk will be third in command, which puts him in charge of the mess, the suppy room, and the gym.

Not sure I agree here. I understand Pike's affinity for Kirk, but he sure looked ticked off when Kirk showed up, so naming him first officer very shortly thereafter seemed out of place even then. And Kirk hadn't signed up for starfleet until after everyone except McCoy had - at least that's the impression I got. It looked to me like everyone else had uniforms and were already involved with starfleet to some degree, but Kirk shows up in the same clothes he had on the night before (on a side note, I didn't like the "bones" reference as it seemed unnecessary - Kirk called McCoy "Bones" as short for "saw-bones," a common slang for surgeons/doctors). I also got the impression that Pike figured his chances of coming back were pretty slim, so I'm not sure he knew how long Kirk would be second-in-command. He also makes Kirk first officer then has him leave the ship, so what was the point to begin with (other than the story flow to put Kirk in a position to become captain)?

Originally Posted By: Dart
3) Dumping Kirk on Hoth was irrational and, as Kirk pointed out, illegal. That's the point. Spock has lost it - forget the veneer of control, he is as emotionally compromised as Old Spock says he is. They scoped that there was a Federation outpost and dumped him 14 KM from it, which is pretty good considering how big that planet is (Earth norm gravity); I figured the recording was canned advice - Line 3,875: "IF Federation base <=400 KM, THEN 'stay with capsule.'" Somewhere in the research station is an ignored light blinking and a disconnected speaker NOT whooping; hell, Scotty and the bug thought a ship had landed outside of the station and they'd just missed hearing it ("you're not my replacement?").

Again, I guess I didn't see all of it that way. I could see Scotty ignoring the alert, and the automated message, but no one seemed to bat an eye when Spock threw Kirk off the ship, so it didn't seem like anyone felt it was out of place. Also, with the level of precision they seem to have for everything else, 14km seems a bit far to me, if they were really trying to get him close. If they weren't trying to get him close, it would imply to me that they either didn't know the outpost was there, or didn't care, and in either case you'd think someone would have a problem with that. Again, it seemed to be only a story device to get Kirk to meet up with old Spock.

Originally Posted By: Dart
4) I'm thinking the new Star Trek movie is unique in that it is the first time that the time streams have been polluted and they didn't seek to "put it right;" they just accept that everything will be different.

Actually, I think that was the point - they wanted to do Star Trek but not be confined to the canon history, and this frees them from that.

Originally Posted By: Dart
5) What was weird to me was Spock doing the hippidy-dippidy out of season or whatever the hell Vulcans go through every seven years. Maybe I'm missing something and it is a matter that they must get it then and it is optional otherwise, but my understanding was that Vulcans were pretty much eunics otherwise.

Yep, I agree.
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#2936873 - 01/10/10 03:45 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Arthonon]
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CAUTION SPOILERS:

I must chime in and say that I really liked Star Trek as a "movie" but not as part of the Star Trek universe. The alternate reality/timeline story telling mechanism didn't set well with me and simply seemed like a contrievance to quickly setup the "established" ST structure with Kirk in command, Spock as science officer etc and prepare audiences for (no doubt) the sequel without having to adide by the ST history.

In fact, the whole setup of the new ST universe led to a few elements which seemed particulary rushed and IMO just poorly done--namely Kirk being captain on his first cruise despite being fresh out of the academy. There were a few others along with some clearly non ST elements thrown in that didn't seem quite right: prejudice/racist Vulcans come to mind.

One part which seemed just too incrediable was Kirk finding Spock on Delta Vega which also conveniently introduces Scotty who becomes chief engineer of the Enterprise without so much as a peep out of Star Fleet--guess they were not too concerned about personal choosing there own stations or abondoning their posts. I also thought it was pretty amusing that when Spock recounted how he ended up on Delta Vega it shows him looking up and seeing the desctruction of Vulcan (which I presume must have been light years away--didn't the Enterprise jump to warp during the formation of the black hole?) yet what he sees looks like DV is a moon of Vulcan.

Don't want to sound too negative about it. It was a fun movie but not good ST.

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#2937002 - 01/10/10 08:37 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Lucky]
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This is more of a nitpick but what was Sulu doing with a katana when they went on the mission to stop the Romulan drill on Vulcan? I didn't realize that swords were standard Federation issue. biggrin
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#2937019 - 01/10/10 09:38 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
This is more of a nitpick but what was Sulu doing with a katana when they went on the mission to stop the Romulan drill on Vulcan? I didn't realize that swords were standard Federation issue. biggrin

Hey, yeah, especially since he studied fencing.
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#2937528 - 01/11/10 02:59 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Arthonon]
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#2939685 - 01/14/10 02:09 PM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: Dart]
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Originally Posted By: Dart
It rocks on Blu-Ray. smile

I suppose I'm a mid-grade Trekkie, as I can summarize episodes and identify species from TOS, but can't tell you the actual episode number.

I liked the original series - it was a space western where the town drifted into the bad guys (instead of the other way around), updated to match Cold War realities. The Enterprise was built by the lowest common bidder, which apparently was Chrysler. It always ran, but clearly there was some MOPAR madness going on.

TNG turned into too much of a soap opera for my likes, and they were so intent on keeping rules unbroken that one wondered if the future might indeed be run by overly politically correct beaurocrats. Space western soap opera (except everyone got along so well I suspected the water was treated with valium) where the town drifted into the bad guys (updated to reflect the United Nations). The Enterprise was built by the highest bidder with a horrific warranty included that ensured nothing short of sabatoge could hamper its functioning.

DS9 struck the middle ground. Space western where the town doesn't move, was built by the Soviets for one of their lesser members before the collapse, and is now partially funded and largely "advised" by Americans, who also provide a security shield for it, since a large deposit of oil wormhole that has strategic importance was discovered within its territory. The characters actually had diverse interests and loyalties to match their agendas.

Voyager was Lost in Space, except they were literally Lost in Space, and the cute girl was blonde and hooked up with the weird alien cook. It split the middle between TNG and DS9 (which was quite a feat), and for some reason is neither compelling to watch nor worthy of a petulant channel switch. I won't pause it to answer the phone, but I will still pop a DVD into the player if I'm really bored. Their ship was made by the same aliens that made the one for Galaxy Quest.

Enterprise was a call back of sorts, and I'm in the minority that thinks that it was actually the best since the original series. The characters weren't just diverse, they grated on each other - and yet used the professionalism of their careers to try and hide it. Space western meets The Equilizer where the town moves to drift into the bad guys (updated to reflect the Global War on Terrorism). Remarkably, it is alone (outside of the original series) in that the characters make bad decisions that come back to haunt them later. The Enterprise is made by no-bid contract firms that gave no warranty whatsoever and various research firms that sold prototypes as if they were production line ready.


Good post. I really liked the Enterprise series. It was exciting..the ship was a hunk of junk, the crew was inexperienced, and everything was new and exciting. The movie as well, is pretty much the best of 2009 for me. I seem to be among the minority here on SimHQ that is able to disconnect and enjoy, if you know what I mean biggrin
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#2940076 - 01/15/10 08:45 AM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: semmern]
PanzerMeyer Online   centaurian
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Originally Posted By: semmern
I seem to be among the minority here on SimHQ that is able to disconnect and enjoy, if you know what I mean biggrin


What? You mean you're not a rivet counter or a sci-fi fan who analyzes every little plot hole or deviation from previous established canon? wink

Star Trek is also my top film of 2009 with Avatar in second place.
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#2940111 - 01/15/10 09:43 AM Re: Star Trek Blu-ray [Re: PanzerMeyer]
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I used to do a fair amount of writing, and originally moved to California to get into the movie industry (that never happened, of course), so I guess maybe I just look into the craft more than some.

For me, the Star Trek movie was really good for at least half, but things started to fray at the end. Not terribly, but it just had too many things happen that detracted from the overall quality to me. I was kind of waiting for a "That's why Kirk is captain" moment, but it never happened. I can't think of any time where I said, "hey, that was a really smart thing to do." My girlfriend, who is not a sci-fi rivet counter, had the same feelings I did about the movie's story flow (she is an English teacher, however).

Plus I wasn't wild about the Enterprise sets, and some of the props looked cheesier than the original series to me (especially the hand phasers).
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