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#2634879 - 12/16/08 05:11 AM Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-...  
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Panther Offline
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First installment will feature the SA-6, it's my favorite Surface to Air Threat to go up against. Enjoy!!

SA-6.wmv <---Right-click, save as.
SA-6.avi <--- Right-click, save as (smaller file, recommended for low bandwidth users or low end PC users).


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#2635126 - 12/16/08 03:49 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]  
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Falconeer Offline
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Very nice P!!! thumbsup

Here's my version of it. It's from last year:

--------------------------------------------------------
RECORD BEGIN TIMESTAMP 12/23/2007 13:47:12.
Game is Tactical Engagement type LocalMission name: !SA6

Mission Type: SEAD Strike
Flight Callsign: Cowboy1
1 Ship Flight
Ac type: F-16C-52 CCIP
Country: U.S.

FLIGHT EVENTS
Event Falconeer joined as Cowboy11 at 08:59:04
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:00:00
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:00:10
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:01:31
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:01:53
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:04:10
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:04:20
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:05:51
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:06:05
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:06:23
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:07:15
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:07:21
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:08:51
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:08:59
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:10:12
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:10:18
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:11:32
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:11:44
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:13:16
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:13:31
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:14:56
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:15:22
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:15:28
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:16:09
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:16:19
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:32
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:38
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:17:58
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:18:15
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:18:21
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:19:33
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:19:39
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:21:11
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:21:17
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:22:42
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:22:50
Event SA6 launched at Falconeer 09:23:48
Event DPRK StraightFlush destroyed by Falconeer at 09:24:22
Event Falconeer exited from Cowboy11 at 09:26:46

-------------
PILOT SLOT 1:

Human Player: Col Falconeer
Callsign: Falconeer
Pilot status - OK
Aircraft status - OK
AA Kills 0
AG Kills 1
AS Kills 0
AN Kills 0
Shoot At 36
Other Player Kills 0

screwy tactical


Falconeer

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#2635772 - 12/17/08 11:56 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Falconeer]  
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superpilot81 Offline
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great job!

#2910216 - 11/30/09 02:47 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: superpilot81]  
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tarball Offline
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Tx, USA
This link is dead, do you have a new link? I'd like to check this video out as the SA-6 is my problem area right now.

Thanks!


This sig is free of fundamentalist-infused dogma masquerading as wisdom...
#2910247 - 11/30/09 04:20 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: tarball]  
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Panther Offline
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Fixed!


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#2910336 - 11/30/09 08:37 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]  
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PrivateNoob Offline
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Thanks! Great video! Didnt know abot flashing the jammer and when, I just push J once if I remember it.

Need more, particular A-G tutorial videos ala mavericks, HARM and etc. biggrin

#2910412 - 11/30/09 12:37 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: PrivateNoob]  
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Thommo Offline
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This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.

Last edited by Thommo; 11/30/09 12:37 PM.
#2915095 - 12/07/09 06:31 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Thommo]  

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Good job panther. I've had a lot of problems with the Gainful myself (that is the NATO codename right) The in all honesty though Right after that I find that the SA-2 is a pain to deal with to. In the SEAD training mission in the korean theater I found myself either getting splashed by the SA-6 or the Guideline.

How does one go online in this game, is it easy to do?

#2915153 - 12/07/09 09:48 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Thommo]  
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white_fang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Thommo
This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.


Oh, well,

...any our changes to the aspect, even smallest one will make the missile turn...

Why missile turns?

1. To get your ass/nose into interception or pure pursuit path.

And how does missile turn?....

1. It rotates, using canards, ailerons, and as a matter of fact, such doing rolls makes missile more dragging. (Air resistance onto some surface, which can, doesn't have to be aero-dynamical, in this case they are,.. BUT!, ailerons on 45-90 degrees are NOT aero-dynamical and produce more drag)

And we want to keep in mind that missile is affected by g-force as everything in the air/ground, but can sustain much more, about 10 times as fighter.

It actually depends on what type of missile.

And we want to know that missile is about 2,3 times and more, faster then fighter, so for turning in really "tight" turns it needs to be very maneuverable, and they mostly are.

Why we want missile to turn?

1. To trick it for to loose our track
2. To bleed energy (with help of drag/air-resistance)

How to make missile to bleed energy?

Missile will bleed speed/energy if it turns, especially if it's motor doesn't run.

Missile's motor runs until:
a) runs out of fuel (missiles are much smaller than planes, well most are :), and have smaller "fuel tanks" on-board, and they don't carry under-pylon additional fuel-tanks)
b) it destroys itself and/or target (well if self-destroys, it's out of fuel "long" before)

-so, to conclude.

We want to turn/roll/change aspect to incoming missile to make same missile turn too (because it tries to intercept us and looses its energy (speed)), so it cannot keep with us making such evasive attitude changes (turns)... because of its high speed and tracking logic.

That generally leads to knowing your threat.., a MUST, because NOT all threats are SA-6's.
There are some like SA-10 (S-300/400). You'll meet with them at the time wink

Finally, so these are not some mumbo-jumbo *rolls*, and they require lot's of SA (situation-awareness) and practice and NOT panic!.

Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers

#2915222 - 12/07/09 02:09 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: white_fang]  
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Ed_1 Offline
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NYC, USA
Originally Posted By: white_fang
Originally Posted By: Thommo
This is a question, not a critism. I don't understand why you kept doing barrel rolls on the final approach of the missile. At one point you stop pulling to change the aspect on the missile to do one and it almost gets you. I don't understand how that would help avoidance.


Oh, well,

...any our changes to the aspect, even smallest one will make the missile turn...

Why missile turns?

1. To get your ass/nose into interception or pure pursuit path.

And how does missile turn?....

1. It rotates, using canards, ailerons, and as a matter of fact, such doing rolls makes missile more dragging. (Air resistance onto some surface, which can, doesn't have to be aero-dynamical, in this case they are,.. BUT!, ailerons on 45-90 degrees are NOT aero-dynamical and produce more drag)

And we want to keep in mind that missile is affected by g-force as everything in the air/ground, but can sustain much more, about 10 times as fighter.

It actually depends on what type of missile.

And we want to know that missile is about 2,3 times and more, faster then fighter, so for turning in really "tight" turns it needs to be very maneuverable, and they mostly are.

Why we want missile to turn?

1. To trick it for to loose our track
2. To bleed energy (with help of drag/air-resistance)

How to make missile to bleed energy?

Missile will bleed speed/energy if it turns, especially if it's motor doesn't run.

Missile's motor runs until:
a) runs out of fuel (missiles are much smaller than planes, well most are :), and have smaller "fuel tanks" on-board, and they don't carry under-pylon additional fuel-tanks)
b) it destroys itself and/or target (well if self-destroys, it's out of fuel "long" before)


To add in the beginning of missiles flight path ,at least with some radar based missiles (whether they A/A or S/A (sam) ) will take lead pursuit path to "cut" off and shorten ToT . When its in this phase changing direction will bleed its speed more because of constant changes in its intercept path .

#2915427 - 12/07/09 07:20 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Ed_1]  
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Unix Offline
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United States of America
Thanks for the tutorial Panther!


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#2916497 - 12/09/09 10:16 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Unix]  
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white_fang Offline
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Er, Steph.

What are best timings for flashing the jammer. (Int / pause / duration)

Some timings is msec.

I've programmed HOTAS for 800ms on, 800ms off, for 5 times, or it should be smaller?

#2917040 - 12/10/09 01:40 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: white_fang]  
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Panther Offline
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Ah, I just manually do it. That way I don't know have to worry about "is it on or off?" after running it from a macro.


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#2920004 - 12/14/09 09:08 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]  
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white_fang Offline
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Aha,

I see, thanks anyway.

In my case ecm is on HAT4, so it is not real easy to constantly push it fast.
(well, otoh, keyboard is ok)

one dirty little h4ck smile (well, hint)

.. about "worrying" is it on or off, you can add some key-combo for jammer off separate,
(it is near the end of cockpit key list, unassigned by default)

eg. jammer toggle (on/off) = j , jammer off = CTL + j, so at the and of the jammer autorun (flash) syntax, jammer off would be always executed at the end

eg.2. (didn't program this but it should work)

SimECMOn = j
SimECMOff = {CTL SHF j}


BTN H4U /I KD(X17) DLY(100) KU(X17)
/O RPT(7) (SimECMOn DLY(323) SimECMOff DLY(153)) SimECMOff

... and here you have fast "link" to 3 ews programs

BTN H4D /I KD(X18) DLY(100) KU(X18)
/O SimEWSProgTwo SimDropFlare Rem RPT(2) (SimECMOn DLY(3412) SimECMOff DLY(853))
BTN H4L /I KD(X19) DLY(100) KU(X19)
/O SimEWSProgThree SimDropFlare Rem RPT(2) (SimECMOn DLY(3412) SimECMOff DLY(853))
BTN H4R /I KD(X20) DLY(100) KU(X20)
/O SimEWSProgOne SimDropFlare Rem RPT(2) (SimECMOn DLY(3412) SimECMOff DLY(853))


.. easy, but not tested, will do.. later smile

bye

#2921387 - 12/16/09 10:19 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: white_fang]  
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Phoenix Offline
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Nice tutorial! Thx smile

#2925734 - 12/23/09 09:30 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Ed_1]  
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Subsonic Offline
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Very Well done!! You sound like a young guy and it is great to hear a kid who is taking the time to build proficiency at flight sims. So many of the generation behind us seems to go for the FPS games. New blood in the FS arena can only help the genre. Well done!!

#2925849 - 12/24/09 12:29 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Subsonic]  
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Panther Offline
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pitchafit Young well 27 sure isn't old but a guy.... REALLY??


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#2925877 - 12/24/09 01:29 AM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Panther]  
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Unix Offline
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Originally Posted By: *Panther*
pitchafit Young well 27 sure isn't old but a guy.... REALLY??


He meant to say that you sounded adorable hahaha


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#2926594 - 12/25/09 12:32 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: Unix]  
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white_fang Offline
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hehe,

Be warned, you don't wanna mess with that .. >sex-chick< wink

#3162024 - 12/21/10 01:06 PM Re: Introducing my "How to Defeat a SA-... [Re: PrivateNoob]  
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Sorry, but where's the video clip?


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