|
|
#2912051 - 12/02/09 02:55 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: GrayGhost]
|
Member
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2483
Loc: California
|
I was there when it happened, actually, beta testing it. What you fail to comprehend is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, nor what the underlying reasons are. DCS by all rights is a full, complete piece of work, whether you want it to be or not.
BS was announced as an addon. It was later when they called it DCS and said it would be stand alone. One quote I found in 2 minutes of google searching: "2- Although the original plan for the Ka-50 project was to just add the Ka-50, it has grown substantially greater than this. Be it a new mission editor system, advances in ground unit and helo unit AI, new AI units, etc., all of these have contributed to the time and resource budget necessary to complete the project given a constant-size staff. So, although this has pushed dates back, you will get a much more feature-rich product in the end." Yes, they added some other improvements... doesn't mean you can charge more than full price for "a new sim". Well, you can, but that is lame. Next thing we know, there will be ACAS (Advanced Combat Air Simulator), which will be an addon for DCS, only renamed and touted as a "brand new sim". And it will come with the $60 price tag. They are being made compatible online, again, due to consumer demand - and IT IS extra work, what on earth do you think we've been beta testing so far?
$15 too much for you? Sounds like its jacked up? I think not.
$15? Point me to one link which had BS for $15 when it released. I recall it was $60. And the "extra work" should have been included in the first release (like it was in FC). Make up your mind... is it a completely "new sim build from the ground up", or an expansion. Can't have it both ways. Hell, we can even charge $15 for LOMOAC 3.0. Make it online compatible with FC/DCS. Yeah, I get 60 doing that, running medium to high settings out of the pit on a GTX 260-216 and E8500.
I'd love to know what you have to do to make it work like that. Apparently, no one on SimHQ new when I asked months ago. Sure, I might be able to achieve a playable frame rate if I turn down the I have AA at 8x. No real need for more, and the res is 1920x1080. What are you trying to spot?
I can't afford a monitor that large or a system to keep up with the high resolutions. I just want to play with some AA with at least 1440x900. And what's 'real close ranges', and which aircraft are we talking about? There are some known LOD issues which IIRC are not curable with AA, though they never stopped me from getting and keeping a visual with a 19" screen inside 10nm. Sure, sometimes a plane will dissapear in the haze or blend into the ground. That's fine, it happens, and it isn't unrealistic either. Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic.
2-3 km, per the in game labels/tags. If it's that frustrating for you then I suppose by all means, abandon it - but your unfounded, out-of-line accusations and downright ranting are not helpful. If you have a problem, people can try and help you solve it. You aren't helping anyone help you.
Don't recall asking for help. Just calling out how lame the FC 2.0 expansion is. I decided I'd skip DCS: BS when I found out about the price increase and the incompatibility between it and older versions. The crazy DRM has kept me off of it to. I was going to buy it on release, but when news of the "brand new sim" came out, I quickly changed my mind. FC 2.0 just makes it even less likely that I will pick up a reduced price version of DCS:BS... let alone FC 2.0.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2912088 - 12/02/09 03:52 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: Flogger23m]
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 3423
|
BS was announced as an addon. It was later when they called it DCS and said it would be stand alone.
One quote I found in 2 minutes of google searching:
"2- Although the original plan for the Ka-50 project was to just add the Ka-50, it has grown substantially greater than this. Be it a new mission editor system, advances in ground unit and helo unit AI, new AI units, etc., all of these have contributed to the time and resource budget necessary to complete the project given a constant-size staff. So, although this has pushed dates back, you will get a much more feature-rich product in the end."
Yes, they added some other improvements... doesn't mean you can charge more than full price for "a new sim". Well, you can, but that is lame.
Next thing we know, there will be ACAS (Advanced Combat Air Simulator), which will be an addon for DCS, only renamed and touted as a "brand new sim". And it will come with the $60 price tag.
Excuse me, the price charged was the pretty much the market price. What do you mean 'more than a full simulator'? It was charged as much as any game. You are talking non-sense. The amount of work done for DCS was quite extensive, and the amount of work ongoing still is quite extensive. $15? Point me to one link which had BS for $15 when it released. I recall it was $60.
And the "extra work" should have been included in the first release (like it was in FC). Make up your mind... is it a completely "new sim build from the ground up", or an expansion. Can't have it both ways.
Hell, we can even charge $15 for LOMOAC 3.0. Make it online compatible with FC/DCS.
I'm talking about FC 2.0, as in accordance to the thread title unless otherwise specified. What you think should have been included or not is irrelevant, as it measures nothing. I could go post that I think my car should have included a rocket engine, but I'm pretty sure I'd be laughed at if I went to rant about it like you are doing here. That judgment is not yours to make - you can choose not to buy, that's it. You can choose it isn't worth the money to you, but you can't devalue other people's work. You can pretend to, I suppose, but then I'll have to assume your time is worth nothing. I'd love to know what you have to do to make it work like that. Apparently, no one on simhq new when I asked months ago. Nothing. Straight up install - in any of FC, FC2, and DCS:BS. Right, that much I gathered. 2-3 km, per the in game labels/tags. Spotting what, again? A lot of things are next to impossible to spot at that distance - in reality. In FC you should be able to see something, though at 2-3 km there is an unhelpful LOD transition. It tends not to last long. [quote] Don't recall asking for help. Just calling out how lame the FC 2.0 expansion is. I decided I'd skip DCS: BS when I found out about the price increase and the incompatibility between it and older versions. The crazy DRM has kept me off of it to. I was going to buy it on release, but when news of the "brand new sim" came out, I quickly changed my mind. FC 2.0 just makes it even less likely that I will pick up a reduced price version of DCS:BS... let alone FC 2.0. I have seen lamer rants, but not by much.
_________________________
-- 44th VFW
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2912122 - 12/02/09 04:47 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: GrayGhost]
|
Member
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2483
Loc: California
|
Excuse me, the price charged was the pretty much the market price. What do you mean 'more than a full simulator'? It was charged as much as any game. You are talking non-sense. The amount of work done for DCS was quite extensive, and the amount of work ongoing still is quite extensive. [quote]
Since when is $60 the market price? I've yet to find any game that costs that much in recent years, aside from one. And I'm not talking about collector editions.
Even the original LOMAC (bought a few days after release) cost me 33% less than the initial asking price for BS. And don't tell me that BS is "100%" new, because it is not.
[quote=GrayGhost] I'm talking about FC 2.0, as in accordance to the thread title unless otherwise specified. What you think should have been included or not is irrelevant, as it measures nothing. I could go post that I think my car should have included a rocket engine, but I'm pretty sure I'd be laughed at if I went to rant about it like you are doing here. That judgment is not yours to make - you can choose not to buy, that's it. You can choose it isn't worth the money to you, but you can't devalue other people's work. You can pretend to, I suppose, but then I'll have to assume your time is worth nothing. [quote]
You're still missing the point. Not surprising me.
[quote=GrayGhost] Nothing. Straight up install - in any of FC, FC2, and DCS:BS. [quote]
I'd be very surprised.
[quote]2-3 km, per the in game labels/tags.
Spotting what, again? A lot of things are next to impossible to spot at that distance - in reality. In FC you should be able to see something, though at 2-3 km there is an unhelpful LOD transition. It tends not to last long.
[quote]
Aircraft.
[quote=GrayGhost] I have seen lamer rants, but not by much.
Disagreeing = ranting to you. Interesting.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2912226 - 12/02/09 08:02 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: Flogger23m]
|
Veteran
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 17731
Loc: Bridgewater, NJ
|
Flogger, I can certainly see why someone might interpret your series of posts here as ranting.
Keep it civil, everyone.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2912234 - 12/02/09 08:18 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: Flogger23m]
|
Member
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 385
Loc: LA
|
I hope you'll understand if we value your feedback with similar regard. FC is unstable and runs like crap. Perhaps true in your case, but not in general. From a recent interview with one of ED's senior designers in Russia: Why did you decide to release a continuation of Lock-On with Flaming Cliffs 2.0, even though everyone believed that company resources were mostly focused on DCS: A-10C?
The idea to release a second add-on for Lock-On was born long ago, but due to a number of legal nuances in our relationship with the publisher – Ubisoft – it had to be put on the shelf. Recently, the questions regarding the release of a second add-on had been cleared up and we began to work. With FC2, we hope to extend the lifetime for Lock-On by adding new features developed for DCS and somewhat updating the game in general. Besides this, we’ve received many requests from our users around the world for another patch for Lock-On to solve a number of key issues. These requests also played a role in the creation of FC2. At the same time, we are continuing to develop the A-10C for the next installment of DCS and are also pursuing a number of professional trainer projects.
What specific goals did you set in developing FC2? For example, I understand that the game engine used in DCS: Black Shark was a significant factor. Will this conversion prove justified?
Yes, of course it will be justified. In developing Black Shark, we were able to create a number of interesting features, which help to significantly improve the gameplay experience. Most important is the trigger system, which allows for the scripting of mission actions and events. This allows mission creators to create missions which are more interactive and unpredictable. Depending on the player’s actions, the mission environment can change significantly. Besides this, there is an entirely new GUI system, new mission editor, new game options and input configuration systems. Even the graphics engine underwent some cosmetic upgrades, helping it look quite on level today. The essential goal of FC2 is clear – enable the flyable aircraft of Lock-On in the virtual world of DCS. From the FC2.0 announcement FAQ : Q: What new features does the Flaming Cliffs 2.0 upgrade add? A: The following features are added: - Runs under DirectX 9C - Improved Mission Editor with trigger system - New terrain area to include much of Georgia. This will be same map as used in DCS: Blacks Shark. As such the Crimea has been replaced with the addition of Georgia. - More detailed terrain to include more ground objects, larger forests, and higher resolution elevation data - Improved clouds - High resolution airfield textures - Improved multiplayer system with embedded game browser - More robust online cheating prevention - New and improved menu system - Numerous new, highly detailed ground units including infantry - Improved flight performance for player-controlled aircraft - Improved flight models for all artificial intelligence (AI) controlled aircraft - New, more realistic G-tolerance modeling - Limited 6 DOF cockpits that move up, down and sideways according to maneuvering - New and highly-detailed Su-25 model - Advanced ballistics are implemented for all flyable aircraft, including ricochets of AP rounds - F-15C locked target IFF indication - More realistic ranges, seeker guidance and fuzes for air-to-air missiles - More realistic electronic countermeasure operation and performance - New and improved sound engine - New radio message voice-overs
Edited by EvilBivol-1 (12/02/09 08:47 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2912773 - 12/03/09 02:06 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: EvilBivol-1]
|
Air Combat & General Aviation Editor
Hotshot
Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 5480
Loc: California
|
Hey EB, any info on whether Mavericks will still be able to be taken out by SAMs?
_________________________
Ken Cartwright No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood. http://www.techflyer.net
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2914856 - 12/06/09 02:07 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: Arthonon]
|
Member
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 385
Loc: LA
|
I'm assuming you are referring to the issue as known in FC. In FC-2.0, the AI and weapons modeling is based on what we currently have in Black Shark, plus some tweaks and adjustments.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2915286 - 12/07/09 07:44 AM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: EvilBivol-1]
|
Contributing Editor SimHQ Redneck
Veteran
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 11489
Loc: N. Central Texas
|
Yeah, the Mavericks getting hit by SAMs was a killer for me and one of the reasons I put it down.
If that gets fixed, I'll be back on board.
Also, EB, any chance we might maybe get some strike capability back? I know it's a little late in the game, and I'll live, but I miss hitting runways, parked aircraft, buildings, and other stuff like I used to be able to do in Flanker 2.5
Signed,
An Old Flankerite.
_________________________
I'm sort of a reverse elitist. I'd love to have a Rolls-Royce pickup truck, a digital Patek Philippe, and a disposable Leica. www.sixmanfootball.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2916130 - 12/08/09 11:26 AM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: PFunk]
|
Air Combat & General Aviation Editor
Hotshot
Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 5480
Loc: California
|
Thanks EB, the Mavericks and SAMs in FC is what I was referring to.
_________________________
Ken Cartwright No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood. http://www.techflyer.net
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2918828 - 12/12/09 12:59 PM
Re: Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0
[Re: Arthonon]
|
Member
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 136
Loc: Columbia Mo
|
I am looking forward to this. I always loved flying the Su-25. Even if i never really learned how everything worked in the T variant.
_________________________
-Aaron White
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |