Lexus will debut at SEMA, it's new LFA supercar. The LFA is a beast of a machine, and quite beautiful, but it is no Ferarri in my book.
Cost: Starts at $350,000USD or 37,500,000YEN.
I'd rather have a 458 Italia.
-Skater
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Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 3233
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
i'm guessing that was sarcasm but for anyone who doesn't know, new lexus top of line models DO have an 8 speed transmissions and it DO park themselves!
Fugly plastic car. It has no SOUL! Nor do any of the new Ferraris, for that matter. Nowadays I'd rather take a Maserati Quattroporte for a family car, and an Aston for fun If I was to have a Ferrari it would be one from the 60s or 70s, when cars didn't have to have engineered exhaust pipes to sound good, they were just built that way. I mean, I don't see how it is possible to like the way an F360 or F430 sounds, compared to this: Just listen to that music as the revs build up.
_________________________ In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
Why do so many sporty driver's cars come in automatic? If I'm driving some kind of GT car that's meant to cruise twisty roads in I wanna be able to shift myself.
Thanks Semmern, no the hairs on my neck are just stitching up in the air
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Murphy's Law says, "Whatever can go wrong, will, and when you least expect it." (And, of course, we all know that Murphy was an aviator.)
Why do so many sporty driver's cars come in automatic? If I'm driving some kind of GT car that's meant to cruise twisty roads in I wanna be able to shift myself.
couple of reasons, but first, a point of clarification: most sporty cars have autos today, while most sports cars/supercars/exotics have sequential semi-autos, these are basically stickshift manual transmissions where the stick and clutch are moved using Mechanical means, all kicked off by the driver hitting a paddle to either upshif or down: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission
Why? Because increasingly this is the only optioN being chosen by the people actually buying them! I guess they like not risking a missed shift wrecking the tranny, having the shifts be smoother and much faster, and perfect downshifting in a heartbeat. There is far more traffic on the roads today than even 5-10-15 years ago, and stickshifts just SUCK ROYALY in clogged traffic. Similarly, the buyers may no longer have as much free time to devote to a new cars shifting quirks, this bypasses the need for additional skill. But even these new ones, the driver selects the new gear, and when themselves.
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"As Iron Sharpens Iron, so does a friend sharpen a friend." Proverbs 27:17 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 Never, ever, underestimate the ability of people to discount Occam's Razor. - Dart "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." - Grover Norquist
Why do so many sporty driver's cars come in automatic? If I'm driving some kind of GT car that's meant to cruise twisty roads in I wanna be able to shift myself.
couple of reasons, but first, a point of clarification: most sporty cars have autos today... Why? Because increasingly this is the only optioN being chosen by the people actually buying them! I guess they like not risking a missed shift wrecking the tranny, having the shifts be smoother and much faster, and perfect downshifting in a heartbeat.
In other words, DRIVERS aren't buying these cars any more, but rather, people with money who should still nonetheless be in minivans because it's about all they're capable of handling.
And having driven mainly manuals for the last 20 years, I really don't see what's so bad about them when in traffic. Traffic stops, you stop, with tranny in neutral and foot on brake. Traffic moves, you push clutch pedal in, put tranny in 1st or 2nd, and go like everyone else. Shifting into a higher gear is rarely necessary, even a pickup will do 20mph in 2nd gear without over-revving the engine. If you go faster than 20mph it's not clogged traffic.
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 3233
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
semi autos are faster than standard transmissions, simple as that. a paddleshift car can get through the gears faster than a stick shift can do the same thing. virtualy all modern sports cars use paddleshift if ultimate performance is their goal.
Get real, everybody! You can have the ULTIMATE sports car for far less than any of the stuff you guys are coming up with!
Lexus is just overpriced Toyotas.
Now, semmern, admit it! You'd rather cruise around Norway in that baby than in some moth-eaten old Ferrari, wouldn't you?
Imagine the heads turning as you cruised the main drag in Oslo!
Cheers!
Rick...
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"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
semi autos are faster than standard transmissions, simple as that. a paddleshift car can get through the gears faster than a stick shift can do the same thing. virtualy all modern sports cars use paddleshift if ultimate performance is their goal.
I'm not debating that they're faster. What I'm saying is sports or high performance cars used to be bought by DRIVERS, who took the time to learn the techniques needed to drive their cars to their full potential. They didn't have to worry about wrecking the tranny by missing a shift because they DIDN'T miss shifts. They didn't need ABS or traction control, because they knew how to avoid those situations when possible and how to get out of them when not.
I guess I liken it to the difference between hot rodders from my generation and hot rodders of the newer generations. In my generation, you changed cams, ported & polished heads, indexed plugs, built carbs, etc - you learned WHAT makes more power and WHY it does. The newer generation? "I got me a 200hp chip!" Ask what the 4 strokes in an Otto-cycle engine are and you most likely won't get an answer, though, when 25 years ago every kid in high school shop class knew it as well as he knew the alphabet.
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
NH2112, our time has come and gone, never to be seen again. I can set the points on a 327 cu. in. Chevy V-8 by calibrated eyeball. But the skill is useless now.
In a normal, well-adjusted society and culture, we'd be the graybeards, the respected tribal elders, reservoirs of acquired wisdom and knowledge. But in this obscene mess, we're just old and in the way.
All we can really do is take maximum advantage of the young, demand special privileges due to our age, and menace them with our sheer size and a level of strength and fitness that came from a working life, military training, and a non-poisonous food supply, unlike the physical foundation they've built by sitting on the couch eating potato chips and playing Nintendo without the benefit of sunlight.
Cheers!
Rick...
_________________________
"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 3216
Loc: Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: NH2112
Originally Posted By: VF9_Longbow
semi autos are faster than standard transmissions, simple as that. a paddleshift car can get through the gears faster than a stick shift can do the same thing. virtualy all modern sports cars use paddleshift if ultimate performance is their goal.
I'm not debating that they're faster. What I'm saying is sports or high performance cars used to be bought by DRIVERS, who took the time to learn the techniques needed to drive their cars to their full potential. They didn't have to worry about wrecking the tranny by missing a shift because they DIDN'T miss shifts. They didn't need ABS or traction control, because they knew how to avoid those situations when possible and how to get out of them when not.
I guess I liken it to the difference between hot rodders from my generation and hot rodders of the newer generations. In my generation, you changed cams, ported & polished heads, indexed plugs, built carbs, etc - you learned WHAT makes more power and WHY it does. The newer generation? "I got me a 200hp chip!" Ask what the 4 strokes in an Otto-cycle engine are and you most likely won't get an answer, though, when 25 years ago every kid in high school shop class knew it as well as he knew the alphabet.
I would consider myself a driver and my first car was a built 1970 Pontiac GTO but the technology in the newer cars allows you to do so much more if you're able to take advantage of it. And you can't compare some 17 year old noob with a real performance enthusiast, it takes lot more knowledge to understand and tinker with today's systems than with 1950s technology.
it takes lot more knowledge to understand and tinker with today's systems than with 1950s technology.
Well, I'll go so far as to say it takes a different kind of knowledge, but not more knowledge. It's the same as with aircraft design, the guys who did the math on slide rules had learned different things than their CAD-using modern counterparts.
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
NH2112, our time has come and gone, never to be seen again. I can set the points on a 327 cu. in. Chevy V-8 by calibrated eyeball. But the skill is useless now.
I'm the old man in the shop, I think the next youngest is at least 10 years younger than me. I think they're all still amazed at how quickly and easily I can adjust a choke so it works perfectly in the winter, regardless of the temp on the day I adjust it. Relay logic is even more of a mystery to them than solid state logic is to me LOL. Tell them about using a vacuum gauge (what's that?) to set timing instead of a timing light, or using it to perfectly set the idle mixture instead of the caveman "lightly seat needle then back off 1.5 turns." And it's real funny watching someone try to find a dead spot in a pot with a digital meter, then not knowing what to look for when you give him your inexpensive Radio Shack analog ohmmeter that you keep just for that purpose.
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 3216
Loc: Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: NH2112
Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter
it takes lot more knowledge to understand and tinker with today's systems than with 1950s technology.
Well, I'll go so far as to say it takes a different kind of knowledge, but not more knowledge. It's the same as with aircraft design, the guys who did the math on slide rules had learned different things than their CAD-using modern counterparts.
Right, but we're talking about maintainance and modifications here, and with car and aircraft there are simply so many more different systems to be aware of now and those systems tend to be more complex. Old cars are ridiculously easy to work on because of their simplicity, you basically only have to worry about purely straightfoward mechanical stuff.
Also you don't have to deal with the rapid degree of design change that we have today, it's not like it used to be where common engine, transmission or rear end designs could soldier on for decades with only detail changes, now it seems like everything gets either totally revamped or even replaced every decade.
Right, but we're talking about maintainance and modifications here, and with car and aircraft there are simply so many more different systems to be aware of now and those systems tend to be more complex. Old cars are ridiculously easy to work on because of their simplicity, you basically only have to worry about purely straightfoward mechanical stuff.
Also you don't have to deal with the rapid degree of design change that we have today, it's not like it used to be where common engine, transmission or rear end designs could soldier on for decades with only detail changes, now it seems like everything gets either totally revamped or even replaced every decade.
I agree with you, but none of that is really relevant when we're talking about the market driving the change to semi-automatic transmissions. (Can we call these "assault trannies? ) I have abslutely no problem with that, it's the market working the way it's supposed to and I'm all for that. (Besides, it gives me something to #%&*$# about LOL) What I do kinda have a problem with is people who aren't purists or enthusiasts buying cars that were formerly bought mainly by purists or enthusiasts and then "dumbed down" with semi-auto or auto trannies. I just think that maybe driving a Ferrari or Lambo wasn't necassarily only about the top speed or handling, but also about the total immersion and concentration needed to drive it properly, but also the dedication needed to LEARN to drive it properly.
What's next - giving an aerobatics plane the same neutral stability of a Cub? So I hope that clarifies my argument somewhat.
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 3216
Loc: Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: NH2112
Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter
Right, but we're talking about maintainance and modifications here, and with car and aircraft there are simply so many more different systems to be aware of now and those systems tend to be more complex. Old cars are ridiculously easy to work on because of their simplicity, you basically only have to worry about purely straightfoward mechanical stuff.
Also you don't have to deal with the rapid degree of design change that we have today, it's not like it used to be where common engine, transmission or rear end designs could soldier on for decades with only detail changes, now it seems like everything gets either totally revamped or even replaced every decade.
I agree with you, but none of that is really relevant when we're talking about the market driving the change to semi-automatic transmissions. (Can we call these "assault trannies? ) I have abslutely no problem with that, it's the market working the way it's supposed to and I'm all for that. (Besides, it gives me something to #%&*$# about LOL) What I do kinda have a problem with is people who aren't purists or enthusiasts buying cars that were formerly bought mainly by purists or enthusiasts and then "dumbed down" with semi-auto or auto trannies. I just think that maybe driving a Ferrari or Lambo wasn't necassarily only about the top speed or handling, but also about the total immersion and concentration needed to drive it properly, but also the dedication needed to LEARN to drive it properly.
What's next - giving an aerobatics plane the same neutral stability of a Cub? So I hope that clarifies my argument somewhat.
Did enthusiasts ever make up the majority of buyers of high end sports cars? Maybe a long time ago when they were often downright treacherous to drive and took considerable know-how just to keep running long enough to get back to the shop, but not lately. These cars tend to be bought by guys in their mid life crisis years and older now, who probably don't mind a bit of the "edge" taken off.
My next car will probably be a semi automatic, to me clutch shifting is make-work and that extra bit of mental bandwidth you have to devote towards it can mean the difference between success and disaster in a tricky spot.
See, to me clutching is reflexive like kicking the doctor when he taps your knee. I want to shift or stop and my left leg automatically comes out. A treacherous car kinda sounds like it'd be fun to drive lol
The closest I've come to driving a semi-auto tranny was a friend's Pacifica with AutoStick, and I thought that was just the lamest thing ever. I'd rather drive an automatic, and I hate automatics lol
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Phil
"Can I tell you something? Got to tell you one thing. If you expect the freedom That you say is yours Prove that you deserve it And help us to preserve it Or being free will just be Words and nothing more"
Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 3216
Loc: Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: NH2112
See, to me clutching is reflexive like kicking the doctor when he taps your knee. I want to shift or stop and my left leg automatically comes out. A treacherous car kinda sounds like it'd be fun to drive lol
The closest I've come to driving a semi-auto tranny was a friend's Pacifica with AutoStick, and I thought that was just the lamest thing ever. I'd rather drive an automatic, and I hate automatics lol
That split second when you've clutching and have only one hand on the wheel can cost you, it's probably not nearly as important with an older car where you're compelled to leave a larger margin of safety but if you're going to really push a car with awesome handling and braking then full manual shifting starts to become the weak link.
One observation I've made is that when I drive high horsepower cars w stickshifts (drove one w 600hp dyno'ed, another with about 800, also dyno'ed), on the street, I end up being FAR slower, careful and deliberate, particularly for ensuring I'm in the correct gear, and release the clutch more slowly, than in my mostly stock Nissan sportscar. Why? Because getting the wrong gear could be VERY expensive, and also potential for loss of control too (rear tires break traction). IMO this is part of the reason today's Ferraris and Lamborghinis, with more than 500hp of instant power, are being bought with semi trannies: stay in control, less chance of damaging the drivetrain, AND better performance.
But ya dont gotta like it! Heck, if I won the lottery, I'd get a Gallardo or F430 with the semi, AND buy the purest Porsche, the GT3 normally aspirated and stick/clutch! Hey, dreaming's free right?
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If I was to have a Ferrari it would be one from the 60s or 70s, when cars didn't have to have engineered exhaust pipes to sound good, they were just built that way.
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