Forums » Air Combat & Civil Aviation » Rise of Flight - The First Great Air War » So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF?


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#2903328 - 11/18/09 03:43 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: I_Flyby]
Hellbender Offline
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Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 164
Loc: Grimbergen, Belgium
Originally Posted By: I_Flyby
Please do write this up. Can't have enough info. I'm piecing together a pure gaming system soon, and need to do it on a budget. I've already purchased an i7-920 (with DO stepping) and plan to do a mild overclock to about 3.6ghz. I also plan to buy the ASRock X58 Extreme mobo (about $170.00 USD). I'm trying to hold out until the newer Nvidia GT300 series comes out but the ATi 58xx series looks pretty good too. I'm open to suggestions. biggrin
Flyby out



Guide is in the works. It's not quite as short as I initially intended it to be. ETA is tonight (GMT).

You should know that I consider the i7-920 to be the best high-end CPU sensible money can buy at the moment. More than that and the price goes up exponentially. Overclock to 3.6ghz is also exactly what I'd recommend. If you can pull it off, that is. Seems a lot harder than overclocking the old C2Ds. From what I read online, 3.3ghz appears to be a bit of a brick wall for regular overclocking and I'm writing the guide with a broad audience in mind.

If possible, avoid ASRock. I'd go for a mid-range Asus (or Gigabyte / MSI) X58 board. Admiteddly, it's personal preference, but I do feel that using a mobo from Asus' budget line in such a high-end system is asking for problems. Then again, it could be an excellent board. YMMV!

As for holding out for the GT3xx, it's a commendable plan, but I won't put that in the buyer's guide. Buying means buying now.

Lastly, I don't do ATI AMD and only provide Intel / Nvidia for reference. I do always recommend you to look up what the competition has to offer, of course. Once again, it's a personal preference, as I've had bad experiences with ATI AMD in a not so distant past. No grudges, really, Intel and Nvidia simply have the most robust products, in my opinion.

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#2903331 - 11/18/09 03:44 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Dart]
Boelcke Offline
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Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 1316
Loc: Düsseldorf Germany
Originally Posted By: Dart
Yep.

But all the other stuff - TIR, TeamSpeak, FRAPS, Pr0n downloading tool, etc. can use it.

The 32 bit OS was every bit (byte?) constrained to how much RAM it could use as RoF is.


just to make it clear: A 64 Bit OS can use more than 4 GB RAM but if the applications are still 32 Bit, every application can still use max. 2 GB RAM, to use more you need even 64 Bit applications
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#2903335 - 11/18/09 03:53 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Ming_EAF19]
I_Flyby Offline
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Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 1181
Loc: Ohio, USA
With regards to overclocking an i7-920 to 4ghz over 3.6ghz., I haven't seen where there's any benefit insofar as gained frames per second. I guess I'll have to find some links to show that. Otherwise if I saw where 4ghz provided a nice bump in fps I'd do it, especially with the newer DO stepping. Nice to know it's there, though.
Flyby out
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#2903350 - 11/18/09 04:30 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: 2005AD]
Tvrdi Offline
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Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 851
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: 2005AD
The max total RAM address space for a 32bit OS is 4 gigabyte. If your graphic card has 1G of RAM, your maximum memory is going to at most be 3GB, because the 32bit OS has to use 1GB of that address space to address your video memory. It’ll actually be lower than the 3GB because there are other hardware resources that need address space, too. So, saying there is no reason to go with a 64bit OS is BS to be honest. The real fact is that there is no reason to go with a 32bit OS on a new build PC.

Simple fact, if you have a new 64bit CPU and are getting a new OS then it is much wiser to go with a 64bit OS to get the full benefit from it. I see many people who purchase a new 32bit version of Vista or Windows 7 and stick 4GB of RAM and a 1GB high end graphics card. Before they have enven built their new PC they have crippled it by practically throwing away 1.4GB tp 1.5GB of usable RAM.

Using some simple mathematics with RoF on a 32bit OS with a 1GB Graphics card and 4G RAM.

4GB RAM
- 1GB RAM for GPU (effectively eliminating 1GB of system RAM)
- 1.7GB for RoF
- approx 0.3 - 0.5GB for other hardware addressing
That leaves a total of 0.8 - 1.0GB RAM for your OS and other apps that are running in the background. I can assure you that if RoF was running on such a system your free RAM would be measured in the low Megabytes, and that the paging file would be used a lot.


mate wer talkin about gaming....how many games can use more than 2GIGS and are written in 64bit? For apps like Adobe, yes, 64bit is better.....

btw 64 bit OS uses more RAM for OS tasks than 32bit....


Edited by Tvrdi (11/18/09 05:57 AM)
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#2903351 - 11/18/09 04:31 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: I_Flyby]
Hellbender Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 164
Loc: Grimbergen, Belgium
Originally Posted By: I_Flyby
With regards to overclocking an i7-920 to 4ghz over 3.6ghz., I haven't seen where there's any benefit insofar as gained frames per second. I guess I'll have to find some links to show that. Otherwise if I saw where 4ghz provided a nice bump in fps I'd do it, especially with the newer DO stepping. Nice to know it's there, though.
Flyby out


If you're not getting any benefits from overclocking the CPU on framerate, it means you've likely reached your video card's potential for that particular scene. No sense in offering more processing power.

One of the only times when you will notice a difference with overclocking the CPU is when many things are happening at the same time nearby, but are not actively being rendered on-screen. In Rise of Flight, particularly, you will notice a difference on tank missions or missions with loads of AI planes. They slow the whole process down, even when you're not directly looking at them and your framerate indirectly suffers from it.

Simply put: if you're getting terrible framerates simply looking up at the blue sky in an especially busy mission, the CPU is the bottleneck, not the video card and overclocking might help, to some degree.

This is why IL-2's Black Death track is such a great benchmark. The images it draws have long since been outdated and should be maxed out on framerate by now using modern video cards. Yet the process behind the images, the plane AI and certain particle effects that are still being rendered on the CPU instead of using pixel shaders, cause the infamous slowdowns.

This is not to say that a day will come that the Black Death track will be perfectly smooth, as not only processing power increases, but processing methods improve as well. That's exactly what the i7 does with threading, but it requires compatible software.

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#2903393 - 11/18/09 06:11 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Hellbender]
Dart Offline
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Tvrdi, either you believe that some of us got an improvement in the sim's performance going to Win7 64 or you don't.
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#2903399 - 11/18/09 06:20 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Dart]
Tvrdi Offline
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Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 851
Loc: Earth
hey Dart...take it easy :-)

I believe you but I doubt that performance increase is considerable....also youll have to own a new i7 with at least 6 gigs of RAM to have any gain...

and BTW i will check this on my rig....If I fount this true you have a free plane from me....deal?


Edited by Tvrdi (11/18/09 06:22 AM)
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#2903441 - 11/18/09 07:25 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Tvrdi]
Dart Offline
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I got about 5-8 fps boost....but that wasn't nearly as important as the consistency of performance.

[edit]

In the median. 10-15 under no-load conditions (Free Fly, etc.)

[/edit]

Much more smooth; no wild swings and dips when looking from plains to forest, or when moving over the front. Going from 48 to 40 fps is hardly noticeable to me....going from 45 to 32 really was; hell, on Ultra Omega High settings the sim would go from a pitiful 24 fps to 2 or 3...and then back to 20.

Indeed, it's never been a matter of stutters for me, which I define as a halt (single digit fps), but of dipping below the magic 30 fps and then back up to 40+ within a second and then back again.

No need to buy me a plane - it seems all I ever fly is my Nieuport 17.

Heck, we'll just find a time to fly together once the sim is dialed in on your system and they release the DF map mode!

[edit2]

Part of it might have been a nice, clean reformat and registry with updated drivers!

[/edit2]


Edited by Dart (11/18/09 07:33 AM)
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#2903453 - 11/18/09 07:40 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: Hellbender]
I_Flyby Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/00
Posts: 1181
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Hellbender
Originally Posted By: I_Flyby
With regards to overclocking an i7-920 to 4ghz over 3.6ghz., I haven't seen where there's any benefit insofar as gained frames per second. I guess I'll have to find some links to show that. Otherwise if I saw where 4ghz provided a nice bump in fps I'd do it, especially with the newer DO stepping. Nice to know it's there, though.
Flyby out


If you're not getting any benefits from overclocking the CPU on framerate, it means you've likely reached your video card's potential for that particular scene. No sense in offering more processing power.

One of the only times when you will notice a difference with overclocking the CPU is when many things are happening at the same time nearby, but are not actively being rendered on-screen. In Rise of Flight, particularly, you will notice a difference on tank missions or missions with loads of AI planes. They slow the whole process down, even when you're not directly looking at them and your framerate indirectly suffers from it.

Simply put: if you're getting terrible framerates simply looking up at the blue sky in an especially busy mission, the CPU is the bottleneck, not the video card and overclocking might help, to some degree.

This is why IL-2's Black Death track is such a great benchmark. The images it draws have long since been outdated and should be maxed out on framerate by now using modern video cards. Yet the process behind the images, the plane AI and certain particle effects that are still being rendered on the CPU instead of using pixel shaders, cause the infamous slowdowns.

This is not to say that a day will come that the Black Death track will be perfectly smooth, as not only processing power increases, but processing methods improve as well. That's exactly what the i7 does with threading, but it requires compatible software.


Well I have to back up a bit here. I've been away from gaming for a few years (though I try to keep up). The last time I ran Black Death was on a p4-2.8 with an Nvidia 6800 Ultra. I actually found that the Kamikaze trk was harder on that system than the BD trk was. Min fps for BD was 13. Min fps for KK was 7. I believe it had to do with the last scene where a Zero crashed the carrier. That was where I saw 7fps. Was that the graphics card? Maybe so. Anyway I'm now wondering how much can be gained from 4ghz versus 3.6 when the software is a combat flight simulation. It seems to me that more ghz is what's needed because our combat flight sims are little ghz gluttons. I know, for example, setting the anti-aircraft fire on ships to a higher level in IL2 would cause a major slow-down, as would having troops jump from several transport planes. I'd build such missions, try them out and have to do some dialing back. So how to find the sweet spot in overclocking a CPU for combat flight sims? I wonder... wink
Flyby out
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#2903574 - 11/18/09 10:31 AM Re: So how is it going with windows 7 and ROF? [Re: I_Flyby]
Dart Offline
Contributing Editor
Just upgraded from intern
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Registered: 09/02/01
Posts: 16536
Loc: Alabaster, AL USA
Because a lot of the graphics in the IL-2 series is actually CPU driven (gosh, it is code, isn't it?), the Kamakazi track is my second choice in benchmarking - I actually use both.

The water reflections and particle lighting stuff is a nice way of checking that video and CPU are synched for best performance.

There was something really funny in my experience with RoF and overclocking my CPU.

Bumping my Dual Core 2.94 GHz system just slightly (multiplier from default 11 to 12) to 3.2 GHz brought a huge (20 fps) improvement to the sim. Pushing past that didn't really make a large jump like that, so I backed off (no sense OCing a CPU anymore than one has to sounds reasonable to me).

I think there's a 3 GHz hurdle. I don't know if the next one is at 4 GHz or not, as I'm running my trusty three year old processor until it dies. Or SoW: BoB comes out, whichever is first.
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