American Rifleman has one of their cover topics "25 years of service U. S. M9 Beretta". I can remember when I was in a high speed unit and we got the Berettas. On deployments, other soldiers were interested in them and would ask "is that the new Beretta? Can I see it? What do you think of them?". Now here they are 25 years of service.

I can think of a number of items like that, but this cover article really hit me.

I'm a dinosaur.

Awwful feeling. I'm having it now, too, as a matter of fact.
Just got back into flying after being away for twelve years. Things have changed. The avionics on this airplane I'm flying are giving me headaches. The planes I was flying were so simple. I'm trying to learn this Garmin G1000 system which is supposed to make life easier for the pilot, but like you, I'm feeling like a dinosaur! Told my wife, just last night that I'm not all that sure I should have gone back to it!
I;m thinking taht I'll just stick to flight simulators.

You gotta be messin' with me!?!?!?

That's it. I'm Methuselah. Just the other day I was telling the wife and kids a "No sh*t, there I was!" story and I mentioned a radio we used to use. One of them asked a question about the radio, so I figured I'd just pull up a picture on the Internet, assuming that said radio was still the height of forward-thinking technology.

Well, what I found was a condescending, almost chuckling article, written by some whippersnapper who took a tone that clearly said, "Can you believe they actually used to USE crap like this back in the old days?" It was written like someone was describing a Revolutionary War musket in the light of modern arms. All my stuff is in museums!

Well, thanks, OG. Now my rheumatism is actin' up! And I think I might have a touch of gout, my big toe is hurtin'! Or maybe the weather is gonna change! I'm going to watch Sanford and Son or listen to Grand Funk Railroad...

Cheers!

Rick...

Not the AN/PRC-77 by any chance? I've actually used that radio, and that was in the Army in 2005..hooray for new equipment

I was going through some stuff the other day and pulled out my Army driving record.

I'm qualified to drive the Jeep and the Gamma Goat.

So add my roar to the dinosaur din.

25 years? Jeez. I'm old and getting older by the minute.

Didn't I hear that the Army was looking for a replacement to the M9? Can't remember where I saw that. I have CRS disorder.

Nope, not that one. I ain't tellin' ya which one, you'll laugh! It was assigned to the scrap heap long before 2005.

But if you just have to quantify this, I remember being transported by C-117D's with five digit bureau numbers quite often. Now go ahead, yuk it up!

Cheers!

Rick...

We're talking the norwegian army here, Sauron. They're generallty 20-700 years behind current trends in equipment.

Too true!



What, one of those newfangled piston engined things? Bah! I laugh at your so-called "combustion engines". Give me a horse-drawn cart any day!

Are we talking about the WWII era Jeep?

I'm curious to know what it takes to be qualified to drive a Jeep. Here's the steering wheel, the gas pedal, brake pedal, clutch pedal. Stick shift on the floor. Reverse is over and down. 4WD high and 4WD low. Keep your eyes on the road.

We're talking the Army here. EVERYTHING has to be documented I have an Army license for driving our all-purpose 4WD, which is the German (actually Austrian-built by Steyr) Geländewagen. Not like I couldn't drive before I got that license, but hey, it's the Army

lol, yeah, I know. I was just curious on what the criteria was.

You weren't that far off, I can tell you that

Panzer, the Jeep I drove was the M151A1, a Vietnam era Jeep.

The nice thing about them was that with a cross tip screw driver, a pair of pliers, some bailing wire, and an adjustable wrench one could fix just about anything on them.

It was light enough that four guys could usually get one out of a ditch, and two could flip one back on its wheels.

The Gamma Goat was cool in that many of them had all six wheels on the ground and working. But that was usually short lived and the kit that turned it into a four wheel drive was installed.

Ahhh yes. The old Gamma Goat cripple kit.

That brings back ...



























more old man memories.

Thanks

When I enlisted in the Army we were still wearing Ike jackets and brown shoes for the first few months. The only thing green was new fatigues.

The M-1 was the rifle along with the BAR, Grease Gun, model 1911 .45 pistol and M-1 Carbine.
The M-1 could fire a grenade with an adapter added to it. The jeep and the deuce-and-a-half were the main means of ground transport with an occasional 5 ton for hauling big stuff.

When we were told we were going to the new green class A uniform we were also told the cost of one uniform would be deducted from our pay over a period of time, we were also told to dye our boots and shoes black. History does make you feel old, and it's right.

Parts of the Norwegian army still use the M74 uniform, so called because it's from 1974. The trousers especially look like straight copies of German WWII uniforms. Baggy and ugly, and not camouflaged. Coupled with the fact that we used old web gear instead of combat vests until the early 21st century, and you begin to understand how far behind we are in some areas.

We're about to get new HK416 rifles for our Army. Just as the rest of the world has started to realise that 5.56 is too small a calibre (what's the point in higher muzzle velocity and more ammo carried when you still need more shots to bring down your enemy than with 7.62?), we're getting the "new" calibre..brilliant!

That said, a Norwegian SAM battery sits on Capitol Hill and protects the White House, so we're not hopelessly far behind in all areas

The Coast Guard 36footer and 44 footer motor life boats that I was a coxswain on have both been retired, the 180 foot bouy tender was sold to Ghana after moving from Duluth to Sitka, Alaska, and the dress blues were changed to the bus driver uniforms.
I did find a good article on the Woodrush for any interested parties, if any of us old farts can still see well enough to read it. http://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/Woodrush1944.pdf

Brace the butt against the ground and touch it off. But watch out if you want to keep your trigger finger.

Cheers!

Rick...

I have a question, I've long heard that the supposely worn out state of the DoD 1911 inventory was the main reason for its replacement by the Beretta, was this actually the case or an excuse?

My understanding is that the U.S. military converted from .45 caliber to 9mm pistols because the later ammunition type had become NATO's standard.

The original poster's comment of other soldiers being curious of the new Berettas reminded me of when we started using digital cameras at jobs in the early 1990s. Our first digital camera was a Kodak DCS 100, approx. $15,000 and while very revolutionary technology it was almost completely impossible to use in the field. That was replaced by a DCS 200 which was slightly better and a little cheaper at $10,000 ... for a 1.5 MP camera! The battery was internal, however, and it wasn't long before these cameras could no longer be recharged, so these became paperweights relatively fast.

Around 1995 we started using wierd looking cameras made by Polaroid, the PDC 2000 and PDC 3000. They looked like they were made for Batman. The PDC 3000 actually used a removable compact flash card, which was pretty slick at the time. Unfortunately, the recycle time between pictures was about 11 seconds so they were somewhat inconvenient to use at ceremonies; we continued to shoot with film and then scan the negatives with digital scanners.

Anyhow, what I remember is how curious and interested people were in our cameras and with digital imaging in general. The technology wasn't yet accessible to the average person. Our commanding officers liked to show off the capability to visitors and have us print pictures before the visitors left the building. Customers seemed to enjoy the novelty of digital portraiture once we made our studio fully digital.

Our final Kodak DCS camera, a 460 model, costed the Air Force $28,000 in 1996; it now sits in our display case outside our office as an archaic curiousity. (A blogger who recently bought one wrote to the dpreview.com forums: "In a wider sense it is hard to research the DCS 460 because it almost predates the World Wide Web, and of course the people who used it in 1995 have long since moved on. And life was very different back then, the people were very different." Hmmm, I don't feel so 'very different'?)

I would think part of the consideration in favor of the Beretta was a higher round capacity and the fact the hammer did not have to be cocked to be fired. The 1911 was a single action pistol and it carried 8 rounds. The Beretta could be fired with the hammer down and had a 15 round capacity.

I'm not sure how much the double v. single action part played, but I do believe the larger ammo capacity was a factor, as was the attempt to standardize with other NATO countries.

I don't have my copy of American Rifleman yet, but I wonder if it mentions what the future holds. I do recall that the Army was looking at testing some future replacement pistols.

I guess we can get more opinions Tom but I would not think anyone would carry the .45 with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked, out of the question in my experience, so if you were to take it out of the holster quickly to use it you would have to operate the slide to put a round in the chamber and cock the hammer. A two handed operation.

I can't comment on the Army issue Beretta but the little .380 I have can have a round in the chamber and be de-cocked with the safety and be ready to fire by taking it off safe, a one handed operation. I might not carry it with a round chambered but in combat situations it might be the way to go.

Anyone here carry one in combat, What was the procedure?

In combat, I carried the 1911 with the magazine loaded, then rack the slide to chamber the first round, then remove magazine and put another round into the magazine, replace magazine. Then carry it uncocked but loaded. So all you had to do was thumb pull back the hammer and you were ready to go.

Just an observation. But the 1911 has a grip safety, along with another safety. So you can't fire the weapon without having your hand around the grip. Right? Also, there are holsters that have a strap you can fit between the hammer and the firing pin. Pull the strap, pull the gun, ready to go.

Would I carry my 1911 C&L. No. I'm a cautious guy. I will never forget the time I came home from shooting my little 9mm Star semi auto and I dropped it on the carport floor. On the hammer. It was not loaded, nothing happened, but it scared the crap out of me. The damn thing was hammer down and pointed up at me. So yeah, I'm a cautious Nelly.

My Ruger P89 in the bedside table is loaded, but no round in the chamber and the magazine is out maybe half an inch. Wouldn't take me much time to stuff the mag back in and rack a round. I figure it's a fair trade off for safety and to give me time to think before I start making decisions about sending rounds down the hallway.

The 1911 I have by the bed is same as I carried in combat - loaded, chambered, hammer down. Just one hand-thumb back the hammer. That 1911 has the Crimson trace red light. So the middle finger pressure will turn on the light. At night, in a dark room it is satisfactory not only as an aiming aid, but is effective as a minor flashlight. Added value is that put a red light on someone and they know you have them. One more chance before you pull the trigger.

Having a pistol unloaded and requiring use of two hands to ready is bad. It has to be as close to "fire" as you are able (physically and mentally). Training will give you the confidence to have it set right. Just like I would transition to hammer back and on safe when it looked more like it was going to be used. Then safety off when you knew you were going to use it.

When you need it- YOU NEED IT. You don't sort-of need it. There isn't a timeout while I get this ready. You will be semi-alert and at the same time pumped up. No situation for fumbling. And all the crap about unloaded or in a safe is a pipedream. If it is in a safe you won't have it. Children really complicate the decision making on where you keep it and how close to ready you go. Not having children makes my situation more manageable. I have a pistol ready to go in three rooms of my house. Bedroom, office and gunroom. The office actually has two. My heavy carry and my back-up/light carry. So in the grognard house there are 4 pistols and a 12 gauge S&W 3000 pump at the ready. Never far from one. When you need it you need it ; and once you have one it isn't a problem to have a couple. You have to be careful not to mix them though. When it is tight you don't need to be figuring out procedures. With the exception of my light/back-up, they are all the same ready.

"9mm's were invented by Europeans to annoy their neighbors."
Author unknown.

The US switched to comply with NATO standards.

Or as we liked to tease people when they asked about the 9mm versus the 45.

"they tell me the girls like them better"

When I had about six weeks left on my three year enlistment I was at Ft.Carson Colo. A great place in or out of the Army.

A notice came to the BB board saying that anyone qualified with the .45 pistol could apply for the practice squad that would be the group a pistol match team would be picked from to be sent to Camp Perry Ohio in March. Normally I wouldn't bother because no one in my company got away with anything but...we had a career SFC platoon sgt. who just got orders for Korea and that meant no wife and kids went with you for the thirteen month tour and he was pissed at the Army.

Me and another short timer gave it a shot all though we'd be gone by match time. Ol' Sarge said O.K. and we got permission to practice every day for 30 days. TDY to the practice range. Pick up a random .45, holster and pistol belt from the arms room and gone for the day. I had a car so we drove to the range, were issued three or four hundred rounds of ammo and left to practice on our own. This was a seasoned bunch of pros who were all of higher ranks with personal custom .45's who did what they wanted to with no supervision, we joined in.

Fire a hundred rounds through these old beat up pistols from WWll or Korea and beat it into town to the city dump. Turn the fatigue jackets inside out and go shoot rats, bottles, cans and anything else short of each other, a few civilians plinking away with .22s or handguns but it was a big dump and me and Jones hung out by ourselves to avoid conversations. After a couple of weeks of this fun we got a little loose with safety and one day I was de-cocking the .45 one handed which I thought I had gotten decent at when I lost the hammer. A round hit the dirt about an inch behind Jones's heel as he walked in front of me. He turned and cursed me out while we laughed and talked about how close we came to extending the three year hitch into something a bit longer. I dropped him off to his wife at his home and I went to my girl friends house for a beer until it was time to report back.

How I spent my vacation before getting discharged.

Great story Hanc. Takes me back to when life was so much more simple and less controlled. There was a free-wheeling flow to life that I miss. I remember as kids we would take our 22's and just wander off for the day. Go to the USS Steel dump and rat shoot. Then make a raft and float on the river for a while. Then follow the train tracks home.

Hanc, can you imagine this going on when we were growing up ? The union going after a Boy Scout for cleaning a walking path as part of his project. That kind of crap wouldn't even have been thought of then. And if some whacko did, everyone would have taken him aside and ended it immediately.

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2009/11/typical-union-mentality.html

Yep, Hanc, we're dinosaurs that roamed the earth in prehistoric times.

*Gasp!* Out of sight of your parents WITHOUT a cell phone or a GPS tracker? And ARMED AND DANGEROUS?! And gone the WHOLE DAY? And I bet your played cowboys and indians too, that barbarous game! Besides, it should be called bovine guides and natives, otherwise it's racist. I can't imagine how you can possibly have turned out to become a normal person without supervision from parents and government rules guiding the way for you as a minor growing up in this horrible world!


Tongue firmly in cheek

Seriously though, I think I am the last generation to grow up without a cell phone. They became popular and affordable around the middle of the 90s, when I was 10-12 years old. But it was far from usual for kids to have their own until a couple of years later. We would also go roaming about the neighbourhood, playing in the woods, and in winter we would strap our skis on and go skiing in the streets before they were cleared of snow and salted. We would occasionally fall and scratch our knees or bang our heads. But hey, today's kids don't get to do that, because whaddya know, it's a dangerous world out there , so they grow up all soft and whiny and overstimulated.

O.G. your childhood is right out of Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer. Wandering around with a .22 would have ended up with me in the Juvenile Delinquent lockup in the boro of Queens, part of NYC where I spent my early years.....but we did roast mickeys in a fire in an empty lot full of junk and building debris, we did build rafts out of Popsicle sticks but we sailed them down the street to the sewer after a rain storm, the local river, the East River had a place called Hellgate that would swallow sailing ships whole and would swat a raft around like a gnat. No real sailing for us.

Rode my Schwinn out to LaGuardia field before it got built up completely and caught fish and blue claw crabs in the adjoining creeks which are now the parking areas. The local park, Astoria Park was a great piece of nature with a swimming pool that cost you 12 cents for a Saturday of cooling off.

Semmern I agree on cell phones for kids which started with beepers for kids but never worked because the kid still needed a phone to make an excuse for not coming home.

I am really thankful that cell phones, GPS's and the like did not catch on when I was still working. I recently had a plumber at my house and his time was monitored by his truck his cell phone and whatever else his company had that made him clock out to take a pee. Thanks to whoever for me missing that fun.