How often were blimps actually used over France?

I know that they were a reall problem for the UK, which is why most of the Snipes were kept back for home defense, but I've rarely read about attacks where they had to cross the front or attacked Paris.

There were some day and night attacks on paris which ended up with destroyed zeppelin in the early days of the war, the reason they stopped was because even if they got there in one piece, the damage and morale effect on Paris was abysmal because they were already being bombed by Gotha`s, Big artillery pieces, etc.

Dart,

Zeps (rigid, had a steel frame, internal catwalks) and blimps (not rigid, no frame, basically a big balloon) ain't the same thing.

I know you like to thumb your nose at history but....

HT

Actually, Tom, I used the word blimp because I couldn't remember how to spell zeppelin!

But you knew what I meant...

[edit]

So the Goodyear Blimp doesn't have an internal structure?

Hello,

edit: sorry, Hot Tom was quicker Yes, the GoodYear blimps have no internal structure, but are just blown-up bubbles - if with ballonetts, to control volume changes of the gas due to temperature changes, and keep the hull under pressure, because it would otherwise lose its shape and become uncontrollable.

@Dart: blimps were foremost used by british and french forces, meaning a non-rigid manoeuverable airship, and England used them to full extent, and with a lot of effect, as marine scouts. Italy also had some of these, but they would not see the Flanders frontlines (mediterranean theatre).

Rigid airships were foremost used by Germany, being the Schuette-Lanz (SL) airships (basically a "Zeppelin" with wooden ribs, and framework, but small other changed details) and the Zeppelins (LZ, or L), frame made of Duralumin.

There were also german Parseval and other airships, more related to blimps with their non-rigid hulls and ballonetts, but they did not play a major role on the western front (reconnaissance towards Russia etc.).


There were a lot of german rigid type airships over France, first for reconnaissance missions (bad idea, the surviving rest was soon withdrawn), then for bombing trenches, and Paris, but it was soon considered as useless - the far-firing giant railroad guns were much more "effective" in a gruesome way. Foremost army Zeppelins (LZ) were used for missions against France (and Russia), while the naval airships (L) attacked England to bind forces, and patrolling the North, and baltic sea. Sometimes both "branches" partook in the same missions of a multi-airship attack, but it was more an exception.

Lots of Zeppelins were blown south by the foremost northerly winds, from England, so if they somehow lost their position there was no other possibility than to go down and see were they were, sometimes with bad results. There are numerous stories of Zeppelins following railroads in thick fog, to finally read the names of railyards, and get a grpip on their position.
At one time there were three Zeppelins over France, all thinking they had already reached Germany, again with "bad results". One blew up by ground fire (archie), one was captured almost intact, and became the prototype of the later british R34 and others, and the third one was blown further south unto the french provence, where it made an emergency landing.

oops like that last Zeppelin, seems i got carried away, sorry

Greetings,
Catfish

Are there any books on Zeps and Blimps in WWI? Out of all my knowledge of WWI this where I have the least knowledge.

Jason

Hello Jason,

there are some about Zeppelins, but very few about blimps - as far as i know. Two Zeppelin books would be "The Zeppelin in Combat: A History of the German Naval Airship Division, 1912-1918"
by Douglas H. Robinson, another one is Wilbur Cross's "Zeppelins of World War I". The latter is not correct in a few details, but a good read. None of them is really cheap, and then there are some few books with plans, in small editions and even more expensive.
There may be some publications about the L59 and its voyage to Africa in english (?), but then i do not know of it - yet .

The books from Schiller and others, writing about their Zeppelin flights with the "Graf Zeppelin" and "Hindenburg" after WW1 often refer to the war, to make clear what had been changed in the new passenger ships, and why. We have a thorough list of books and magazines, but most are in german - i do not know of much british publications about blimps, but would be really interested if there was anything.

Let me know if you want to know something, i will at least try to answer ..

Greetings,
Catfish

Are they more expensive than the $225 I spent on a WWII aircraft cockpits book? Ouch.

Jason

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I love flight sims!

Before IL-2, my knowledge of the Soviet front was restricted to "hoards and hoards of guys with red stars on their hats."

From RB3D I learned there were more than Camels, DR1's, N17's, and Fokker DVII's.

With RoF I learned the difference between zeppelins and blimps!

Btw, ask the average Joe the difference between a blimp and a zeppelin and the reply will be "one is German and burned up in that newsreel and the other lurks over NASCAR events," or "size."

Hi

No it doesn't. It's a big air bag.
I have seen one of them, but don't recall which one it was. It was at airshows in Miami a number of times. I never rode in it, but was all around it before.

Dart, that is not limited to "flight sims". IE I learned s**t loads from WII tanks, ballistics and penetration when I was playing WWIIOnline.

I think they would be more confused and wonder what Led Zepplin and Blimps have in common ??


Wheels

Hello,

not those 2 i mentioned :), i'd say compared to what you payed they are a bargain.

Greetings,
Catfish

Zeppelins are a wonder! I wrote up a history when I released the Zeppelin L-11 for FS-WWI (3d model by Mossie). Here it is:



The L-11 enjoyed a successful career, serving as a fighting machine, a trainer and as a camouflage experiment. Thanks to the Zeppelin, Germany gained superiority at the front in 1916 for three months. However, losses continued to be high for Germany. Many airships were famous for being shot down by English aviators or for failing to return due to a storm or other distressing reason. The number of Zeppelins lost due to military action and bad weather during the war was seventy-seven. During its unusually long and successful three-year career the L-11 accomplished many of its expected roles, such as scouting, bombing and as an airship trainee before finishing its career with honors at the Hage hangar in November 1917. The L-11 made its first flight on June 7, 1915. It was built at Lowenthal and sent to and commissioned at its first base at Nordholtz. The airship was 536.4 ft. long with a diameter of 61.35 ft. Its gas capacity was greatly increased from the earlier Zeppelins to 1,126,700 ft. This increase in gas lift saved 35,050 lbs of lift and all this power was contained in 16 gas cells. The L-11 was powered by four Maybach C-X engines of 210 hp each. Each engine had a four bladed-laminated wood propeller. The L-11 could reach a maximum speed of 57.7 mph/h giving an endurance of 2700 miles. In normal conditions it could go as high as 10,500 ft with a crew of 18.

The L-11 was the first Zeppelin built at the new Lowenthal plant, and like the L-10 they were known as the 'P' class Zeppelins. They were an improvement over the others in size and craftsmanship. The crew was made up of a commanding officer, an executive officer and a warrant quartermaster-navigator. There was also a warrant engineer, a sail maker to look after the gas cells, a crew to man the elevators, rudders, radio, and machinists for the four Maybach engines. There was usually a two-shift watch. All Zeppelins were of aluminum construction and covered by doped cloth. But the real controversy today is the real color of the airships. The L-10, 11, 12 etc, were a somewhat grey color. The reason is due to the cotton fabric used for camouflage purposes. The fabric had an imprint of light blue dots and often lines as well. This gave the airship an overall garish-blue look. The canvas was stitched to the girders and then covered with fabric strips glued to them to protect and reinforce the seams. These strips were sometimes lighter or darker than the canvas, and when you consider the weathering effect, gave the overall color. The L-11 was one of only a few which retained its initial grayish color. Wear and tear took its toll on the airships, and they had to be patched with new canvas several times. Therefore different colors would be seen covering large areas. At one time the L-11 spent some time as a training ship and carried a white band around its nose to denote its purpose.

When L-11 was ready for action on June 15, 1915, during one of its first raids an engine malfunctioned and the L-11 had to return home. This was a poor start to its career. However, the L-11 made a commanding comeback in the Battle of Jutland and other naval actions. This is considered the peak of the L-11's career, commanded by Horst Freiherr Treusch von Buttlar. This battle marks an important page in the history of flight, in that for the first time in history an airship took part in a major naval engagement. Aerial navigation was almost non-existent, but the Zeppelins, even for reconnaissance purposes, carried powerful long-range wireless made by the prestigious firm, Telefunken. When the raids to England started in 1915, the Navy's High Command established stations at Nordholtz and Borkum to direct and help their Zeppelins. The wireless made by Telefunken was constantly being improved and sometimes two models in one month were sent to the field to be used in the airships of the army and navy. The Zeppelins patrolled and scouted with great success, and complimented the duties and performance of the German Navy's Minesweeper flotilla. There were always an average of 12 to 15 airships commissioned in constant flights to prevent the British from laying mines in the German shores and waters in the North Sea. The British often came in the night to prevent being seen by the Zeppelins, or during fog or in the mornings when the airships were prevented from flying. But when the day came or the weather improved the airships came to detect the mines, clearly seen from above at a short distance. If only a few mines were present they would be destroyed by machine gun fire. Otherwise, when the mines were laid in rows, the Zeppelin would drop a buoy with a flag at the end of the row as a marker and then would radio the minesweeping flotilla, and help them perform their duty by staying in the air as a lookout. Sometimes the airship would land in the sea next to the Flotilla and take aboard an officer so he could get an idea of the position of the mines, and then return him to his vessel. All this was done only if the sea was calm. Also the Zeppelins carried sea anchors which, when dropped into the sea, helped the airships gain a quiet repose over the sea by counteracting the wind and sea movement. By doing this, ballast tanks in the cars, as good as boats, were filled with water. This would counterbalance the increasing lift produced by the air flowing between the airship and the sea. When the job was done, all they had to do was to drop ballast to make the Zeppelin take-off. During this effort the ship could be maneuvered using its propellers and rudders. This mine clearing operation would happen day after day and was the reason the British could not bottle the German fleet in the North Sea, and why the Zeppelin took precedence over all activities. The L-11 performed 31 scouting flights from a total of 394 flights in its entire career.

On 10 August 1915 the L-11, under the command of Kapitan-Leutnant von Buttlar Brandenfels, and together with the L-10, departed on a raid against England from their base at Nordholz, joining the L-9 and L-13 that took off from Hage. Peter Strasser, the German Naval Airship Division's commander until he was killed when his Zeppelin was shot down in 1918, commanded the incursion aboard L-10. At 20:30 Strasser sent orders instructing each airship to break formation at 21:45 and attack London independently through the west before turning north. Von Buttlar in L-11 reached what he thought was Harwich before a naval battery at Lowestoft fired at him. As the attack was from heavy artillery, the L-11 had to climb higher, and with their mission accomplished, von Buttlar turned for home. It was later said the bombs fell at sea. The mission failed to reach London and was a complete fiasco for the L-11. Again, on August 12, the L-11 and three other Zeppelins embarked on a raid to England. The L-11, again with von Buttlar in command, only managed to reach some miles west of The Helder over the Dutch coast because of foul weather. The storm reached the Zeppelin when it was over the Dogger Bank tossing the airship from side to side. The L-11’s firm construction held off the rain as it came down over its canvas in torrents. Suddenly a Saint Elmo’s fire appeared over the machine guns. It is reported that the lookouts at their posts had haloes around their heads and looked like angels managing the Zeppelin. This is the time when a good commander shows his fiber, as von Buttlar did, taking charge of the situation. He gripped the Zeppelin's direction wheel firm in its position while he shouted orders from his command car. Keeping a cool head, he maintained his ship below the 'pressure height' to avoid the hydrogen escaping from the valves, which could be ignited from the electrical discharges and cause the airship to be blown to pieces. A well commanded ship and the firm resolution of the brave crew saved the L-11. The Zeppelin later landed safely at dawn and safely entered its hangar. All the crew and staff enjoyed a well-deserved 12-hour rest. August 17, 1915 again marked another raid for the L-11, together with L-10. The order of command was simply to attack London, according to the weather of course. The L-11 arrived at Ashford in Kent and then von Buttlar released his bombs. Perhaps the weather was not good, or von Buttlar himself thought he was actually over London. The L-11 continued its flight north and eventually reached Faversham. A gun battery was nearby with a searchlight to protect a gunpowder factory, but the electricity was shut down because of the fear the searchlight would attract the Zeppelin to the factory. Von Buttlar dropped his bombs in a field. The sister ship L-10, under the command of Wenke, went through the London suburbs of Wanstead and Leyton and caused great devastation to the railroads. On September 3 the L-10, under the command of Kptlt. Klaus Hirsh, went down, killing all twenty crew members. This crew was the first naval personnel to die in the war. The next in the line of attacks over England by the L-11 came on October 13, 1915 when it left Nordholz in the company of L-14 and L-15, joining L-13 and L-16 from the Hage base. The initial flight was at 2,600 ft. in overcast weather conditions. The squadron was commanded by Mathy. The L-11 was a bit delayed coming up at the rear, and at 21:30 came under machine gun fire and jettisoned her bombs over Horsttead, Colishall and Great Hautbois. Breithaupt, commanding L-15, did much damage over London, including blowing up a mobile battery, killing its gunners, and going into the heart of London creating havoc despite being under heavy fire. Five airplanes came to attack L-15 but she climbed higher and the airplanes had to return to their aerodromes - their plans to bring L-15 down had been a failure. All the Zeppelins had success in this raid, which turned out to be one of the worst bombings of London by the Zeppelins. The Zeppelins returned home under heavy fog but landed safely. Only the L-15 ran into trouble, failing to find its base and crash landing. She escaped serious damage and was later repaired. The L-11 would take apart in many other missions in its career.

During September 1916, the L-11 changed commanders twice. First was Kptlt. Hollander on the 12th and then Kptlt. D. R. Blew on the 19th. L-11 saw its last days out as a trainer ship where future crews and airship commanders were to be taught the art of flying and working efficiently under difficult conditions. The L-11 was decommissioned on August 5, 1917 and kept inoperative until it was dismantled on November 24, 1917. This ended the brilliant career of a Zeppelin that was never beaten during its hazardous life.

REFERENCES:

The Story of the Zeppelin L-11. José Florez
The Zeppelin in Combat. A History of the German Naval Airship Division- 1912-1918. Douglas H. Robinson.
The Zeppelin in Combat. Third Edition. Douglas H. Robinson.
Giants in the Sky. A History of the Rigid Airship. Douglas H. Robinson.
The Zeppelins. Cap. Ernst Lehmann & Howard Mingos.
The Achievement of the Airship. Guy Hartcup.
Airships. An Illustrated History. Henry Beaubois & Carlo Demand.
Globos y Dirigibles. Juan Maluquer.
Kapitan-Leutnant Horst Freiherr Treusch von Buttlar und Brandenfels, first commander of the Zeppelin L-11.

Zeppelin is a Clasic Rock band
A Blimp is the Fat Lady in spandex getting a Super Jumbo size big Gulp at 7-11.

Hello ArgonV,

thanks, nice to see there are some that are also interested in Zeppelins ! I was contacted over at the aerodrome forum, from a relative of Buttlar-Brandenfels, living in England today. Fascinating stories, really.

Thanks for posting this !

@Jason
B.t.w. the books from Rimmell i mentioned are not expensive at all, don't know how i got this impression:
http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/zeppelin-vol1-17-p.asp
and
http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/zeppelin-vol2-277-p.asp

It's 25 pounds each, so not really expensive, with all those plans an research, most never published before, and if not in context with all this information.

Greetings,
Catfish

LOL, no. Just a big gas bag (like me I suppose)

I've ridden in it (the gondola) and it's so slow they don't even have seat belts

HT

Those are really good prices! Thanks Catfish. I will have to get those! And you're welcome about sharing a bit of history. Zeppelins really are amazing in my eyes.

Ok guys admit it,,you just want to play that Zep scene from "Flyboys" in ROF.

Hello Argon,

in which sim does your Zeppelin fly ? Time to have a look at other sims ? Had a look at some pictures of L11 ...

showing the camouflage pattern:




L11 in flight, the propshafts to the props can be seen, along with the crude early "earlike" radiators. The aft gondola housed three engines, which would drive the three rear propellors, two were coupled to one shaft, to drive both two props at the outriggers, the third one drove the gondola's rear one. The rear forward gondola's engine drove the forward prop, and was coupled via gear to a special dynamo to produce energy to communication and telemetry within the Zeppelin, at the different stations.




" ... The fabric had an imprint of light blue dots and often lines as well. This gave the airship an overall garish-blue look. The canvas was stitched to the girders and then covered with fabric strips glued to them to protect and reinforce the seams. These strips were sometimes lighter or darker than the canvas, and when you consider the weathering effect, gave the overall color. The L-11 was one of only a few which retained its initial grayish color. Wear and tear took its toll on the airships, and they had to be patched with new canvas several times. Therefore different colors would be seen covering large areas. At one time the L-11 spent some time as a training ship and carried a white band around its nose to denote its purpose.
..."

The question of which colour those airships had, is indeed not easy to answer. The L11 was one of the few airships that received a camouflage pattern on the upper side. While almost all later naval airships were painted black at the underside, against being found by searchlights during the night raids, very few were painted at the upper half. Earlier Zeppelins did not have venting shafts, like the Schuette-Lanz airships, but needed an upper hull cloth that would let excessive hydrogen gas pass, or vented, while flying above their calculated maximum height. So the upper cloth had to be, while doped against water, permeable for gases from inside.

Another problem was the weathering of the outer hull by rain, ice, and sunlight. Especially the sunlight had a bad effect on cotton, and linen, but there were experiments of how to counter this by the use of corroded iron paint, which was supposed absorb the UV light (the latter is historically still in research, so don't quote me please). This certainly might have been done against the ageing of the inner gas cells, not for protection of the outer hull - this paint was applied on the inner side of the outer hull.

Generally all paints faded out quickly, and a Zeppelin would soon look weathered, losing the exact parting lines of the colours of the different dope applied. Since most Zeppelind did not make it past three months of service, there was no need to really improve the durability of paints, and surviving Zepps like L11, and L30, looked really worn, parts of the outer hull would certainly be renewed at critical points, like above the propellors (falling ice from the upper parts of the hull would be hurled against the hull, badly damaging it). So the area above props was usually made of the heavier linen, or even plywood.

Most early Zepps were of a yellowish colour, not grey, due to the mostly untreated cotton - apart from the colourless dope being applied, where it would be a bit of a darker yellow, like being drenched, or wet.

Greetings,
Catfish

Heck yeah, I do!

Fantasy Zeppelin and lots of historical flaws, but i like it:

From "The russian detective":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfUaw0BfaZA

Greetings,
Catfish

Thanks for the pic and video catfish! I've got that one on my hard drive. The L-11 was built for FS-WWI by Mossie and assembled and coded by myself. FS-WWI is a WWI mod for the WW2 flightsim Fighter Squadron: Screamin' Demons Over Europe (SDOE).

We do not have the cammo pattern, but one could be made by a talented artist I'm sure.

Just looking at a render of guys standing around on the top of a zeppelin makes me cold.

Hello,

thanks ArgonV ! A Zepp in a WW1 flight sim ?! And to think i once had the Screamin' demons WW2 sim, and give it away - it was not bad at all for the time ! And the Zeppelin is great, even rendered with different manned stations ! Guess i will have to find a SDOE copy, and the sim.

B.t.w. since Flyboys were mentioned - this was certainly not very historical also, but at least you would see a Zepp in flight - and the model itself was quite accurate - plans for the L10, and L32 were made by Arizona models for the film, and both can be downloaded in quite good quality (pdf) here:
http://www.arizonamodels.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/28/products_id/193

Maybe the RoF dev team sees this ? Hint, hint ....

And a scene from the Hell's Angels film, did ot find an original footage on youtube, just the "quote" in the film "The Aviator":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXbaa5hqSN0&feature=related

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Hello Catfish!

The flight model is not the most realistic (As this was a WW2 sim with no lighter-than-air support) but it works well for what is needed. You no longer need the SDOE CD to run FS-WWI, simply go here and get this single file: http://www.moddb.com/mods/fighter-squadr...e-exe-installer

I'm currently am redoing the Zeppelin damage model so it will float nicely down in flames when you shoot it up. Currently it falls pretty hard and in pieces once it blows...

Best Zeppelin movie ever!

http://airminded.org/2007/05/25/the-movie-that-time-forgot/

The best Zeppelin movie I ever saw was The Song Remains the Same, but that's just me.

Hi,,
Zeppelins versus Pterodactyls ! Well, i never saw it ... but sure it is better than ... err hrrrm ... some other films (?)

Thanks for the links ! I will try it out ...

Greetings,
Catfish

I am going to make a copy of that poster for sure,,,very cool!

We had a zep made for my Crimson Skies mod for third wire sims. It flew wonky but was fun to shoot down. I also made several models for SDOE in the old days when I was called "Hawk"

There is a Crimson Skies mod to Thirdwire?!? Where?!? I really would like to try that out!

Hawk as in Pete Hawk? Or a different Hawk. I remember the handle, although it's been many a year since FSIC...

Just plain Hawk..I made the P-61,,P-26 and a Gee Bee.

The CS mod never was finished sorry to say..put alot of work into that and had the coolest planes and paint schemes also. I had a video of some planes attacking a zep but cant find it anywhere, also all the files are gone from my harddrive.

SDOE was so cool to mod and make planes for, you could set up a radial engine to lose one or several cylinders and have it react correctly to the loss. The planes flew in real virtual air and the physics were wonderfull. I tweaked the Gee Bee to fly exactly like the reports of the real one. I just got burned out on it and went on to other things.

Ah yes Hawk! I remember now. Your aircraft are still flying, I think all of them now have hi-res paint schemes. I understand about the burn out... Happened to a lot of great modders for SDOE! I'm still tinkering, though mostly only on the WW1 side. 3dp, Skid and I have taken to fixing up the aircraft packs for the WW2 side of things a bit though.

Found the video of the Crimson Skies mod I did for SF1 showing the Zep.
http://www.archive.org/details/PaulGrubichCrimsonSkiesforSF1

Dart,
I must confess, I do not have a definitive answer; maybe I can give you a head start. On October 2nd 1917 the Zeppelin L49 was captured in France. Somewhere in the L49 story some article might reference the number of raids of Zeppelin patrols over France. I hope that this helps.
S!,
MJ

The Rocketeer is kinda cheesy but I still love it. Love the GeeBee Z, the Zep, and the autogyro at the end.

Hi,
maybe the original question somehow got lost, "How many Blimps over France ?" lol.

There were a lot of german airships missions of all kinds over France, but as said before (not to rub it in, just to be correct) no german "blimps" - those were german rigid airships. Mainly Zeppelins, but also rigid airships of the Schuette-Lanz type, and maybe also a half-rigid "Gross-Basenach" type.
Mind you some of the airships over England flew back to their bases above parts of France, and Belgium, if mostly not intentionally - navigation errors, strong northerly winds, and misconceptions on speed or course over ground in unsighty conditions, took their toll.

So there were more airships over France, than those which did real tactical missions against said country. L49 is a good example ...

Those are only naval operations, the army types mostly flew missions over France and Russia, are unfortunately not in
this table. Some army Zepps. helped the Navy sometimes during certain missions. As well some naval airships supported army attacks on France, or Flanders, but hard to find out what happened exactly when.
What we really need would be a statistic of all german Zeppelins (naval and army) operating over France, and Flanders. I will try to get more info on that. But since there existed more than a hundred Zeppelin airships alone (naval and army types together) this is not so easy, so this list may give only a rough idea:

Sum-up of military operations with naval airships of the German Air Service:


1914
Reconnaissance flights - North Sea: 48
Days of rec. missions - North Sea: 35 of 148
Reconnaissaace flights - Baltic Sea: 10
Casualties: 0 airships


1915
Reconnaissance flights - North Sea: 297
Days of rec. missions - North Sea: 124 of 365
Reconnaissance flights - Baltic Sea: 53
Tactical flights - North Sea: 47 in all, 27 over England
Tactical flights - Baltic sea: 4
Casualties: 10 airships


1916
Reconnaissance flights - North Sea: 253
Days of rec. missions - North Sea: 89 of 365
Reconnaissance flights - Baltic Sea: 30 (naval)
29 (army) temp. in service of the Navy
Tactical flights - North Sea: 187 in all, 111 over England
Tactical flights - Baltic sea: 15
Casualties: 16 airships


1917
Reconnaissance flights - North Sea: 242
Days of rec. missions - North Sea: 96 of 365
Reconnaissance flights - Baltic Sea: 42 (naval)
56 (army) temp. in service of the Navy
Tactical flights - North Sea: 54 in all, 28 over England
Tactical flights - Baltic sea: 27
Casualties: 16 airships


1918
Reconnaissance flights - North Sea: 131
Days of rec. missions - North Sea: 55 of 315
Tactical flights - North Sea: 18 in all, 11 over England
Casualties: 11 airships



Altogether:
Reconnaissance missions - North Sea: 971
Reconnaissance days - North Sea: 399 of 1559
Reconnaissance missions - Baltic Sea:135 (naval)
85 (army) in naval service
Tactical missions - North Sea: 306 in all, 177 over England
Tactical missions - Baltic Sea: 46
Casualties: 53 airships

(Numbers from Robinson, "The Zeppelin in combat")

Not to forget the Zeppelin that went to Africa, and back. One of my wife's distant relatives was aboard that one, and later died over the gulf of Otranto during a bombing raid against maltese docks, in 1918.

Greetings,
Catfish

Warbirds, that was awesome! Thanks for finding that. Man it's too bad it never got completed.. It would of been a fun mod!!

Catfish,
Wow! Thank you for contributing to our collective knowledge. SimHQ is an outstanding place to get a head start on WW 1 air combat historical research and your post is a great example of why.
All the best,
MJ

They're all blimps if you have the right moustache

Thanks Catfish!

Ming

For those interested in Zepps in WWI sims:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2903943/In_the_pursuit_for_a_better_Ze.html#Post2903943

Hello ArgonV,



ok you got me, i will install this WW1 sim asap, which means next weekend. I already downloaded the plane pack from the link you provided, and even if this Zepp (and the AEG G.III?) are not yet in this package there is already reason enough to try it. Does it really work without the SDOE CD, i mean is really all included in this one big exe file ?

You said in the "Screamin' Demons over Europe" engine the objects (planes and such) really moved through the air, so this is the one sim i know that does that, apart from RoF. Failing single cylinders of engines due to damage with modeling their behaviour is also a great concept.

Now to this Zeppelin .. so you constructed a whole inner model for this thing ? I mean before it was "only" necessary to model the outer hull for the model, but now the inner skeleton with girders and all is also present ? It DOES look great, from the damaging views, to the rests on the ground after burning up. I would like to also post this, or some of your screens over at the OFF forum - may i ? Or you should do it ?
The AEG G.III also looks awesome, its interior is also the best i have seen for a long time, not that there are so much bigger WW1 a/c around, in any sim. Many thanks for your work !

Greetings,
Catfish

Hello Catfish!

You are correct in that the current Zepp (With new damage model) and AEG are not in the current release. But a Patch will be coming out soon with these things and many more. It really does work without the CD if you go the All-In-One route. And it's pretty easy to set up.

The failing cylinders are an option the damage model can do. Due to time constraints I have not done this with the WWI kites yet... SDOE is the third generation of sims from Parsoft Interactive that used real physics modeling. The first was A-10 Attack. You may remember that one if you had a Mac. Of course the physics engine in SDOE is much upgraded from that 1995 release as PCs got faster.

The first Zepp L-11 for FS-WWI had an inner frame, but when it was shot down it broke up into sections right away (After exploding) and fell fast. At the time this was the only way I could get it to work correctly without months of R&D (I was on a time constraint). For the past couple of months I have been working on this new damage model where the underlying frame is still sectional but built in such a way that the cells and skin can blow up and leave the frame and left over bits together. Keep in mind due to FPS concerns the frame is a simplified 3d mesh compared to the real thing, but this game engine is ten years old now. I could even make it to where the frame collapses a bit after crashing but that would take even more time (Like three more months of steady work). One other thing I should mention is that this Zepp does not fly like a real Zepp. SDOE never got lighter-than-air support in its patches. But, it can fly really really slow (The "stall" speed is 23-25 mph) and indeed can float in a mission with head wind. The Zepp landing training mission has a 20 mph head wind which just about makes this Zepp float. I did not want to give it a full 25 mph head wind as you need to move forward and land!

I am trying to find pictures of the internal gas bags. I want to model these basic shapes in 3d for the inner Zepp mesh that you see when the canvas blows out (Exploded looking of course). Do you have any basic diagrams?

Feel free to post these and any other screenshots away.

Hi,
no info on L 11`s real giblets and no photos of exploding bags, but there are some nice 3d-modelings of the L 32's gas bags. Not from me, there is some "Alin" who did that, unfortunately i did not find the Flickr site where they usually reside, so i post some of those i downloaded - not my property, don't use it commercially etc. etc.

Anyway i am really thankful to that guy, it is the first time i understood how those damned vent shafts were constructed. But not on the L 11 unfortunately or so i think (venting through the permeable cotton.. anyway the bags looked very much the same. But they were only fully blown when the airship was at its calculated "burst height" - above this altitude the bags would blow off hydrogen gas, and they would shrink again when the ship went down again. In those 3d screens they are shown in "full blown" appearance.














And Hello Alin, if you read this, and do not like that your pictures are shown here, please drop me a line and i will instantly remove them -

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish