A question for the coders regards extraction mission type-

I was wondering whether we could add extraction missions to the dynamic campaign, by reversing some insertion parameters or something like that?

eg:

1. When an insertion mission is triggered for Red/Blue force, this would trigger an extraction mission for the oppossing force.

2. The extraction mission has a time constraint for failure, but the insertion does not.

3. If the insertion mission completes before troops are extracted, this triggers a failure for the extraction mission also.

The generation of the extraction mission could generate static, or mobile troops at the extraction point. Which of course could be targets of oportunity for hostile forces with a sharp eye. A manpad could be part of this troop generation for extraction.

A new group in formscomp comprising a Chinook(Lead), or Black Hawk,plus one Apache in support. Pair of Hinds etc

What do you think?
1. possibble
2. not possible
3. no time
4. stupid idea, f#%* off Kurtz

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm going to go with option 1 (and 3!)

I think it's a great idea and is a step towards much more interesting ground war possibilities (who says the extractions have to be performed by helo alone - there are future ground "exfil" possibilities here too, to get these troops to an extraction point).

We have an issue tracking system, as you may or may not have read. Would you like to add this (you only need an account if you want automatic emails for tracking bugs) ?

Feature requests are unavailable at the moment, but if you add it as an issue I'll get it moved to the feature requests

EECH Bug / Issue Tracker

Martin...

Another possibility would be Search and Rescue missions, after one of your helicopters was shot down. Or having to insert and later extract special forces teams.

It's something I've been considering, but I've had higher priorities so far...

Have you seen a resonable possibility in the code arneh?

If it's possible to do, you mean? Everything is possible, just the amount of work varies

But I haven't looked closely into how to implement it.

Colonel_Kurtz - I was wandering through the codebase looking for an altitude bug for fixed-wing forces (I'm avoiding some other work - sue me ), when I came upon the routines for mission types.

There are a few things to notice:

• Troop insertions are created in response to Recon missions that determine the remaining strength/efficiency of a key site. In a real situation, would the opposing side (the owners of the key site) know in advance that their enemy had created an insertion mission.
• If we assume that the key site owner DOESN'T know that an insertion mission has been created (which would otherwise be the easiest place to create the extraction mission) then the extraction mission needs to be created as a result of the key site simply going below it's lower threshold strength/efficiency. This would mean extraction missions would be created BEFORE the opposing side had finished making a Recon (and thus before an insertion mission was created), whilst realistic I suspect this wouldn't be as much fun (as the tension you're looking to create just wouldn't happen very often).
• Repair tasks are created for key sites, so another useful test would be to check how repairable a site is and if it's below the same threshold as the recon mission triggers, then create the extraction mission, otherwise only the normal troop insertion one would be created. Again this would happen in advance of insertion missions, but it would be a change to the current "repair it if it's marked as repairable" mission creation. The advantage to making the missions here is that otherwise you run the possibility of both a repair and an extraction mission occurring at the same time for the same key site, which is madness I tells-ya!
• Mission flight package makeup, mission type codes, waypoint creation and ground troop entity creation calls would also need to be made.
• Extraction should get an escort mission created as well (for the transport helos), as you mentioned, so there's a bit of work there too.

Anyway, that's just some information on my wander through the code. It's quite a bit of work (depending on where these missions are generated from) but I still think it would make a good addition to the mission types (as Arne mentioned already for his Search and Rescue ones, which would actually be slightly easier on the logic side)

Oh and don't presume absolutely EVERYTHING I've mentioned is all that is required - this is just a quick run-through of the logic and I may have missed a step or five

Right - back to not doing the bit of coding I'm supposed to be doing!

Martin...

Wouldn't it make more sense to fly in re-enforcements than evacuate?

We could do both ? Sounds like a variation on a theme - currently (as you know), Repair missions are generated when a key site drops below full strength, if we add two thresholds to that we could bolt different mission types to the situation:

• Less than full strength - Repair (current code works like this)
• Low Strength Threshold - Reinforcements (Resupply variation ?)
• Critical Strength Threshold - Reinforcement / Exfil / Extraction weighted decision (this threshold is what generates the opposing side Insertion response mission to their BDA/Recon mission).

The last one would mean that sometimes you'd be racing against an extraction with your troop insertion and other times you'd be flying into an area that has possibly been bolstered with new forces (your insertion could fail if you don't deplete enough of their reinforcements before you put boots on the ground).

Anyway, just more thoughts.

Martin...

Setting total realism aside, the core of the idea is to create a high pressure extraction. If insertion/extraction are linked you would know that you are likly to encounter hostiles on the approach while youre flying a vunrable heli such as the Blackhawk/Hind forcing you to make good use of your AI wingman Apache/Havoc. My formscomp has carried flight groups like this for some time. Its great in multiplay having a human pilot in a lone apache clearing the LZ prior to insertion. The Apache also clears air threats etc. An extraction would be the same except you have the added work load of protecting ground forces, and a time constraint.

Search and rescue may give you the same thrill, it that was added. Then you could also have a time limit before the crew was captured (depending on how far they are from enemy units perhaps). And could be made fairly realistic.
Maybe even would be cool if the crew to be rescued set off a smoke grenade or fire a flare as you came to pick them up, so that you can see where they are

And doing insertions may not be so interesting if the enemy always evacuates. Then you would probably just want to wait as long as possible before doing the insertion, that way you would be sure of having an easy mission of just capturing an empty base...

Yup - but the second way you get the same "insertion threat" for both extraction and reinforcement missions in addition to providing, as arneh mentions, the same kind of possible threat to the insertion side (are we heading to a key site trying to escape or a key site digging in). I think we're all agreeing, just using different words (and adding different levels of mission)



Dropping in on the red smoke - sounds like a blast (night-time rescues would naturally need a strobe instead!)

Perhaps it would also be possible to have a reaction created (as it is for other mission types). Once an enemy unit is shot down, dependant on varying survivable conditions (package height, possibly terrain, type of damage) the attacking side could create a response ground movement to the area of the "downed" unit - adding not just a time limit, but an imminent threat to incoming rescue units (especially if the nearby forces arneh mentions are mechanised or manpad based and move into the rescue area).

LOL, I knew you were going to say that. Yes I know.

GLB

Search and Rescue, or Extraction, I think we are all on the same page here from what ive read. Either scenario creates a similar high pressure mission type. I think it would be a very popular mission choice judging by ARMA where players are dedicated Blackhawk pilots ferrying, or retrieving troops. After youve flown EECH for some time you find, recon, insertion, Comanche stealth missions using laser hellfires can be very appealing.

BTW the mission, and pit variety, and the AH64D pit still make EECH a more appealing choice for me than DCS

True, but aren't the DCS graphics just fantastic to look at! It would be immensely satisfying to have EECH to strut it's stuff AND look that good

Martin...

Well, it's true In most other sims you're limited to what can be modded, but when you have the source ccde there are no limits to what you can do.




Not after having seen the Rise of Flight graphics. DCS doesn't look so good anymore :p

Rise of Flight ?

Oh my - look at those trees (and they have forests like we want too!)

It's bi-planes though

Martin...