If you live at Ft. Hood in Texas... take cover and be careful... 2 or 3 camo dressed males shooting... 7 dead so far 20 injuried... unknown if terrorist attack or just a crime.

Let us know more details if you find out or are there.

2 caught now...should be over now.

I wonder if this is a cell like the one that tried to attack Ft Dix?

Just saw this on the Swedish TV news, I really want to know the ethnicity of the perps..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

20 WIA. Holed up in building shooting at SWAT.

v6,
boNes

Awww damnit.

12 dead 31 wounded, shooters were US soldiers. Tragic is an understatement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

12 dead 31 injured,1 shooter dead,he was a solder,2 other soldiers in custody.Base on lock down.

I was just watching this on the news.
They hadn't said it was soldiers doing the shooting yet.


Wheels

So, when I first saw it was soldiers I immediately thought "Someone snapped", but a total of three soldiers? What the hell is going on here?

CG of Ft. Hood was just on the radio. 12 confirmed dead, 31 confirmed wounded. Active shooter killed within minutes by civilian police officers on base. 2 other suspects in custody. No motive known at this time. All three were US soldiers.

No WCE, please pray for the wounded, the fallen, and their families.

God bless them.

pfunk

The MSNBC article said one of those in custody is a Major. I would have thought younger enlisted, but not someone who has been commissioned and been in long enough to get that high.

3 soldiers did the shooting with pistols, what kind of conspiracy is this ?

Sweet Jesus. This is horrible.

I would have never suspected a Major or high ranking officer.


Wheels

Same..

But theoretically, do you think this might be a terrorist attack? I wouldn't be completely surprised, al-Qaeda for example are known to be quite good at biding their time and planning things, people in the US who 'knew' the hijackers of the 9/11 aircraft generally said they never noticed anything off about'em..

And what kinda effect will it have on the US military if it is al-Qaeda, and they have actually been infiltrated by al-Qaeda 'sleeper' agents?

There is some report that the Major was connected to Darnell Army Community Hospital and was due to deploy. I do know that a medical unit is scheduled to deploy sometime soon and this may be someone involved.

The rank may not be a true judge of military experience. I have known many Captains, Majors and even a Leutenant Colonel or two that have had less than three years military experience. If it was someone like a Nurse Anesthetist or a Doctor that was direct commissioned into the Army that person may have little or no military experience.

Anything is possible but it's too early for me to be thinking about it being a terrorist attack.
I am curious if the soldiers in question were set to be deployed again soon.
This reminds me more of a disgruntled employee.
Similar to the Postal worker attacks we had a few years back


Wheels

just heard they're possibly searching for a 4th suspect still at large...this is very strange indeed. I mean a Major and possibly 4 others conspiring together? Something smells fishy (unless of course the other 3 suspects are innocent)

Enraging news to come home to today.

The dead shooter was Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, was a mental health professional.

Two persons held on questioning were released, but now they have picked-up another person for questioning.

Both his name and his area of expertise I'm sure will be dissected and studied in great detail.

Theory: Malik for some reason loses it, begins planning massacre, manipulates patients into aiding him?

Seriously, it is not at all too uncommon for psychologists/psychiatrists to manipulate patients to helping them with a crime.

I am hearing the two that were detained have been released. They either were coworkers or two guys that were there that for some reason Maj. Hasan failed to target.

I am sure we will find out soon enough.

It's quite hard to put general standards on who's stable or not. Years of service? Rank? IIRC a shooting also happened in NASA or JPL, perpetrated by someone with a PhD degree... IMO anyone can snap.

How the heck does one guy get off enough rounds to kill 11 (plus the poor cop) and wound 31 in that environment?

That's what I found myself asking as well, isn't Fort Knox one of the largest military bases in the world? How the bloody hell is a lone person able to kill a total of 12 people, and injure 31 others, before being taken down himself? It's just mindboggling to me, this is supposed to be a military base afterall..

I think we'll have to wait further for this thing to be cleared up.

It has been a long time since I outprocessed Fort Hood (back in 1990) but if it was like the processing center at Fort Lewis it is essentially a gymnasium converted into a large processing center where people go through stations that cover things like their wills, their shots, ensuring that all their equipment is taken care of, that family care plans are put together, etc.

Someone coming through the front door could open fire and probably could shoot quite a few people in the confusion, especially if he knows where the exits are and knows how the traffic will flow. I suspect he had been there several times in his role as psychiatrist since there is a psychological eval section as part of the demobilization process for soldiers returning from deployment.

During the busiest part of the day I remember seeing over 500-750 troopers in the processing center at Ft. Lewis. I suspect the one at Fort Hood was even larger since there is a huge combat arms presence there.

"Nidal Malik Hasan" has previously expressed joy at killing of Americans at recruiting centers by Muslims.

It is what it is.

My prayers are that Jesus Christ will comfort the families of those that were killed (including the family of this murderous Muslim.), and aid those injured.

Seems the guy is a Muslim....

Yes and there is suspicion that his religion may have played a factor but I think he was also mentally unstable as well. We will find out more later.

I'm more concerned at this point with the accomplices.

pfunk

Guys, let's please not turn this into a religious debate, there have been massacres commited in the name of christianity as well, no matter what the 'cause' is.

To quote a post from another forum.

"Blanket, bigoted attacks on the religion of Islam will not be tolerated here any more than they will be tolerated against Christianity, Judaism or any other established religion.

While we understand that the enemy in the War on Terror is fanatical Islamic terrorists, not every Muslim can be described that way. Most are people just like every one of you, who just want to live, provide for their families and be left alone."

Whilst indeed, I have no power on this forum, I hope people at least read what I quote, and take it to heart, it's radical Islamists that are the enemy, not all Muslims, the majority of Western Muslims are law-abiding people just like most Christians and Jews.

It is a great tragedy for all involved, and I just hope the family and friends to the deceased, as well as the surviving victims, are getting the help they need and deserve from both the government/military and from the community.

And I ask that instead of focusing our thoughts on hatred towards a large group of people, we instead focus our thoughts and prayers on the families of the deceased, and the survivors who will without a doubt be emotionally scarred for life.

Press conference. Shows how wrong initial reports can be in a frenzy... he's still alive.

Did I understand the female cop that shot him is alive and stable also? If she pulls through, she'll have a story to tell.

And Gargantou is correct. Don't go CE in this forum or thread. And don't go to the CE and run out-of-bounds. Debate it over there, not here in the CH.

If he survives, hope he's not averse to needles. I don't know when his next shot will be, but his last one will be at Leavenworth.

Lethal injection's too good for him, I'd prefer a firing squad, more fitting considering he is/was military personnel.

Why should he be granted a more peaceful death than those of his victims?

I say, let him be shot to death by a firing squad, let him see what it felt like for his victims to be shot to death.

Having read an interview with his Cousin, it becomes clear that Malik's worst fear was being deployed to Iraq, apparently this was going to become true now, maybe it was what made him snap? I.e. rather than it being a hate-crime like I'm seeing many people on other forums claim, it might simply be him snapping from being told he's going to have to go to Iraq, and going on a rampage.

What completely floors me is why would someone be serving in the US armed forces if this is what they believed? It just makes no sense to me.

Time will tell, but today might have provided the answer.

Well, as I think someone mentioned earlier, he had for a long time been working with soldiers returning from Iraq suffering from PTSD, he had to hear their stories and help them, and then he's told himself, that he's being shipped off to Iraq, the place where he's seen all this young men come back from, broken.

Maybe that simply made him snap?

So far there is no actual rproof that this was religiously motivated, in fact, there is no proof these statements a small group of personnel claim he said, were ever even made.

He himself reported very early on being harassed for his ethnicity, this harassment might very well have been from these few people, who are now trying to cover their own responsibility in his mental breakdown, by isntead trying to paint the picture of him as a religious extremist.

No other people that actually knew Malik as a person have so far stepped forward and supported the notion that he was an extremist, in fact, the few reports form people who actually knew him well, have been that he was generally a more secularized Muslim than most.

So I think we should just wait and see what the official investigations etc turn up.

Seems you are bending backwards to ignore the elephant in the room.

Uh, except he actually put the comments in writing:





He didn't ever deploy, he only saw them after they were back in the states.

Ok, let's say that he did have PTSD, why wouldn't a guy who specializing in giving PTSD not seek help for what he "suspected" was PTSD?

The Koran calls for this type of murder. I'll post a large portion so you can't claim that I'm using poor hermeneutics.





As someone who has a Bachelor's degree in Theology, post bac studies in Theology and has been a guest speaker for the Protestant view of Theology with a Catholic Theologian who teaches at a State university, I'd dispute that claim.

The difference is that there is not a doctrine of murdering unbelievers. Every major jurisprudence in Islamic Theology calls for attacks on infidels. There is a lack of doctrine for that type of work in Scripture.

-The Inquisition was political dressed up as Church Doctrine. Ironically, it was the Church who pushed to end it. It also killed very few people (less than 10K by most standards).
-Crusades were defensive wars brought on by Islamic conquest, after all Turkey was a large Christian Empire. The Sancta Sophia was a Christian Cathedral. The sacking of Constantinople was a political sham that had the Catholic Church condemn and excommunicate those who partook. Point to me to one serious fatwa by Imams against Islamic suicide bombers. You can find ones that are against "all terrorism", but not one specifically calling themselves out.
-Now, the recent attack and murder of an abortion doctor in the Lutheran Church makes a good point, except that church's doctrine is more Unitarian than Lutheran. Also, many church leaders came out to condemn it without equivocation. Not so much with imams. In fact there has been a small scandal in AZ with a Muslim man murdering his daughter and his son and other members of the Muslim community defending his actions as being "cultural".
-The OT's call for slaughtering of the Canaanites is a whole other story. First thing is that it calls for the killing to be done by Israel, not by Christians or Jews. It is a call for those people one. What could be so bad to warrant their slaughter? Well, you see they had a religion that involved the rape and sodomy of children. They also believed that Baal required that they roast a baby alive and the longer and louder the child screamed the more god was pleased. Not the type of people that need to be continuing that practice.

The doctrinal differences and the religious practices are immense. After all, show me where in the world Christians are suicide bombing or going on rampages over "Piss Cross".



Not going to Godwin's Law, but you can draw the logical extension about not everyone who has held an ideology doing evil. The main difference is that doctrinally Christianity and Judaism does not have the ideology that Islam and Communism has with regards to prorogation.

Communism has a long history of slaughter to propagate itself.
So does Islam

Oh it gets better Panzer.



Link

Gargantou,

Secularize Muslim? I don't think so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOeXzamxSk8&feature=player_embedded



Even if you buy the claim he didn't want to go to kill Muslims, he would never have killed them unless they came over the wire (Chances=Near Zero).

If anything, he could have helped Muslims there in Iraq...

It was an auditorium, not hard to kill a number when there are dozens of people lined up facing away.

I think we'll need more information about the motivation. Some can perpetuate this from a purely Islamic standpoint... they're the terrorist. However, what if you have a psychologically punishing life and you turn to this radicalism to vent off or get back at those people punishing you (psychologically)?

Too many factors to consider. A person who's in pain can immediately turn to something (terrorism, jihad) to feed that pain and gain a motivation to punish whatever he/she deems necessary to be punished. And this is just a specific case.

You don't turn to terrorism to feed the pain. You turn to something to feed the pain and that result of turning to "something" is terrorism.

Pain + "Something" = Terrorism.

That something has to be an ideology unless it is complete mental breakdown. There is too long of a history of these types of attack to be a mental breakdown. The differences between this and the VT shooter is large. The VT shooter did a video (not strange), but was completely irrational throughout the video in justifying his act. Yet, we have the guy who went an killed his fellow soldiers in Kuwait who made the case based on an ideological position. He basically said, "I believe X, I don't want to see X get hurt, which would cause me pain, so I turned to terrorism."

For another real world example: It wasn't terrorism that was fed by Charles Manson, it was the ideology that lead him to terrorism.

Edit for spelling error of the name.

Was that Charles Manson("mason")? I doubt that it can satisfy the terrorism part since Charles Manson went on to murder white people to start a race war. Debate over terminology, terrorism and crime is expected to follow for clarity. Was the Jones town massacre a terrorist activity, the killing of a congressman IIRC (A direct assault on the state?). Both had ideologies indeed but is inflicting terror merely incidental?

I cannot argue about the intermediary from pain + "something" and then terrorism since my post was already speculative enough and going from that would turn to more speculation. "Racial harassment" being involved might not require that "something". People have been known to jump from pain to outright murder (violence). Some cases don't even need an ideology (but it's a good excuse). Is the ideology an excuse? I'll have to wait further since these are all academic.

I'm sorry for fueling the fire. If the admins intended this to remain in Community Hall as a thread for mourning, I'll have to rest my case.

My condolences to the family of the victims and all.

It isn't too hard to see where this is going. I'll let it ride though... Sometimes trying to apply logic to something like this just doesn't work.

Good luck.

Condolences to all involved in this tragedy.

Seems such a waste.

My bad dude, I wasn't aware of his online postings until after you showed'em.

I apologize for that. There is indeed more and mroe info to indicate this was a planned attack rather than a 'spur of the moment'.

Also, I never said he had been deployed to Iraq, what I said was according to his Cousin, he had just been told that he was going to go to Iraq, which could possibly have made him snap.

What a tragedy

Sometimes I wish the death penalty didn't call for a lethal injection - something more painful and horrible is in order here, on par with what he did.

Indeed, as I said earlier, he deserves a firing squad IMO, he should be killed the same way he killed all those people, being shot and left to bleed to death.

More this morning:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

I just heard a radio report that he is paralyzed and refuses to talk. Believe it or not, prayers for him and also prayers his heart softens exponentially and he speaks and repents for what he has done. He can still be forgiven and saved.

EDIT: I'm not saying he doesn't deserve whatever he gets, so please don't take it that way.

I would pray that he survives to pay for his crimes but I'm not an religious individual so, I do hope however.

Interesting to see who the first will be to step forward and justify these killings.

The man repeatedly expressed a desire to leave the military. Why on earth wouldn't they oblige him????

A Colonel overheard him expressing "glee" at the news that two American soldiers had been killed by a suicide bomber. What more do you need to do to be thrown out of the service???

That crossed my mind also. The only explanation I can come up with is MAYBE their working environment is so stressed out (violent/hostile) that such expressions are simply passed upon.

Edit: And I'm scared if there's a shred of truth in that twisted explanation I came up with

A terrible day. Prayers for the families of those who died and the wounded. That justice is done for the perp.

Seems as if they knew of Officer Nidal Malik Hasan's radical internet postings 6 months ago. Years ago one of my Federal Officer co-workers who was Muslim showed me a little green book he had titled "Jihad". At the time i didnt know what the heck the word meant. In any case he died of liver disease.

Perhaps it's time for stricter controls of military personnel, and not letting people who have shown tendencies towards extremist ideals, be it christian extremists, jewish extremists or muslims extremists, not be granted the ability to work in the military, or any form of law-enforcement/security agency?

I mean if I saw a soldier under my command posting on a christian website saying that "Arabs are animals and all arabs and muslims should be killed", and vice versa, I sure would take this up with my superiors and recommend they discharge him.

Sgt. Kimberly Munley

Heroic action under fire. Who knows how many lives she saved that day?

Wow!....I'd promote her to police Lt.

Glad to see she seems to be pulling through/surviving!

I damn sure hope she gets a huge medal for what she did, had she not risked her life in the way she did, the death toll could have been far higher.

I don't think there's a police force in the land that would allow an officer to work if he says anything about "killing" someone. Even idle talk is not tolerated.

The military is a different animal however. A soldier's primary job is to kill, whereas an officer is to protect. You have to allow a certain amount of leeway for soldiers to let off steam.

True, true.

But still, when you start talking about targetting a specific group of people, be it by nationality, race or religious beliefs, the alarm bells should start ringing, even within the military IMO.

They don't have to oblige him in anything - he's an officer, all he has to do is resign his commission and he's out.

Thanks Phil. That kind of takes away from the "he snapped" argument, doesn't it?

Have they released a list of the dead. A friend of mine from high school is stationed there. I know he was out on training all week but he is due to deploy soon. I haven't heard from him on FB and dont really wanna call his Grandma yet.

Jerry

If he did have these opinions about the US foreign policy, it brings up another point. What was he doing being allowed to treat soldiers suffering from PTSD caused by implementing those policies ? What kind of poison was he spewing into their already troubled minds ?

All this Political Correctness is the rope with which we will hang ourselves.

No longer me; I have torn up the stakes and moved my tent to a different campground. I'm done with all this PC crap.

Not true. He went through the Uniformed Services Health Academy to get his MD and his psychiatric residency so he owed the Army a significant amount of time afterward. The Army paid for his training to become a doctor, they expect something in return. Most of the time it is a six to ten year comittment afterward. I don't know what his contract called for.

I'm sure some "official statement" from Al Qaeda will be issued soon from somewhere in cyberspace.

He hired a lawyer to try and get out of his army contract.

Thanks, Tom, I'd overlooked that. In any case, this guy makes the ones who go AWOL or simply refuse to deploy look honorable.

A lawyer? Man he really wanted to get out of the army, just theoretically, is it possible that he was feeling his hate towards American was increasing and he figured if he could get away from the army it might decrease? Afterall, since he managed to rise to the rank of Major, it's obvious that this is not simply some Islamic nutter, obviously this is/has been an intelligent person.

There's so many possibilities right now, I hope the official inquiries into the whole massacre gets the relatives of the deceased some answers.. Why, and how, could this happen in the most modern army in the world?

Because that modern army is part of a modern society which allows Political Correctness to trump all else.

I'm beginning to wonder about the lawyer thing. I suspect he was told by the Army that he will have to serve out his contract and that may have sent him over the edge. The Army isn't going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars training someone only to have them bail on them a couple of years afterward.

Indeed, maybe he felt he was starting to loose it, and wanted to get out of the environment which was causing his mental state to degenerate?

I mean, certainly trying to get out with the help of lawyers indicates what kinda effort he was giving it to try to get away from the military.

He started as a Captain and was promoted once earlier this year. His rank has more to due with pay than command, and I'd be surprised if he even had a single soldier under him (but what he may have done with his patients is unknown). As far as intelligence goes, his passing med school would be a better indicator, but since when has intelligence precluded nuttiness, particularly amongst those whose motives are religious/political rather than personal.

This gets more WTF by the moment...



http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/87980/

I think the entire diversity department in the US Army needs to get a dishonorable discharge....

According to reports he joined the Army right after high school. He was enlisted for quite a few years. It sounds like he did the Green to Gold program and used the military to put him through medical school.

I would hate that. I did the Green to Gold program.

My friend was still in the field when that happened, he just messaged me on FB.

Thank God.

Me too. One of my favourite quotes go like this:
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

It hits frighteningly close to bulls-eye.

Firstly, my deepest sympathy to all that lost their lives. This is tragic.

In many ways, I am with OG.

If my words here get me barred from this forum, so be it, it has been worth it.

F**k political correctness. It is time for us to circle the wagons. "Multiculturalism" is a crock of #%&*$#. It does not work, it never will, because those who demand it are the very ones who do not embrace it. A local example is Australia's asylum seekers.

As most of you know, I was near to "loosing it" a few months ago. But I did not end up doing anything like this. I'm sure in weeks to come the pen pushers will find somebody else to blame for this whole ordeal.

To my good friends on this board I make this statement:

Next year, I will be coming to the United States, most probably Texas. I am an Anglican Christian by birth, and readily admit that perhaps I have not been to church enough in my life. BUT, I realize that it is an honor and a privilege to be able to go to the United States, not a right. If I am accepted as a citizen, then I WILL swear to defend my new nation with my life, the same as I would England, despite my age.

When are the politicians, lawyers, and policy makers going to open their eyes? WE ARE AT WAR. We are in a Holy War. And it is happening around us all the time.

Something has gotta give eventually.

Rant over. Hope I did not offend.

Andy.

You'll do fine in Texas.

Since the crime was committed in Texas, he should be sent to our Hunstville Prison - yes, that world famous place that is #1 in America for carrying out executions. It doesn't matter if it falls under a "Federal Crime"....we could do it much quicker and its only 160 miles give or take from Hunstville to Ft. Hood.

This is just for 2009
Executed:
10/27/2009 Reginald Blanton Murder and robbery of a man in his apartment.
9/22/2009 Christopher Coleman Drug-related murder of three people.
9/16/2009 Stephen Moody Murder and robbery of a man in his home.
6/2/2009 Terry Hankins Murder of his wife and stepchildren.
5/19/2009 Michael Riley Murder and robbery of a convenience store clerk.
4/30/2009 Derrick Johnson Robbery, abduction, rape, and murder of a 25-year-old woman.
4/15/2009 Michael Rosales Murder of a woman during a burglary of her home.
3/11/2009 Luis Salazar Murder and attempted rape of a woman in her home.
3/10/2009 James Martinez Murder of two people in their car.
3/4/2009 Kenneth Morris Murder of a man during a home robbery.
3/3/2009 Willie Pondexter Robbery and murder of a woman in her home.
2/12/2009 Johnny Johnson Rape and murder.
2/10/2009 Dale Scheanette Rape and murder of a woman in her apartment.
2/4/2009 David Martinez Murder of his girlfriend and her son in their home.
1/29/2009 Ricardo Ortiz Retaliatory murder of a fellow prisoner.
1/28/2009 Virgil Martinez Murder of four people.
1/22/2009 Reginald Perkins Robbery and murder of his stepmother.
1/21/2009 Frank Moore Murder of two people outside a nightclub.
1/14/2009 Curtis Moore Murder of three people.

"Other states are trying to ban the death penalty...My state is puttin' in an express lane!"

- Ron White (my hero)

bummer, man!

sh*t happens!

wow, looks like 7 or 8 of the victims were from this area! :o

If you publically claim to support the murdering of our troops, could that POSSIBLY be protected by the freedom of speech? Isn't that sedition, at least in war time?