I have a question about the accuracy of the human aimed machine guns in Rise of Flight.

I jump online every now and then and fly the fast climbing allied machines that I love. Despite almost constantly having a good altitude advantage, I'm brought down in about one mission in two by long range gunfire from much lower German fighters. The Aus Server displays icons and ranges on many of its maps and I was often able to watch the lower German fighters as they stood on their tails to shoot up at me and note the ranges they were firing at. I noted that the good shots were able to get a hit or two per burst from between 250 and 300 meters distance with relative consistancy. The record for the longest critical hit being a Fokker D.VII which nailed the engine of my SE5a at 550 meters!

Having never fired a machinegun mounted in a biplane at an another, my opinion on the accuracy of them doesn't count but the opinions of these blokes certainly should

'Mick' Mannock 61+ claims
In his rules for air fighting
"Rule 1. Pilots must dive to attack with zest, and must hold their fire until they get within one hundred yards of their target."

Oswald Boelcke 40 Claims and the father of German fighter tactics
He advocated to his pilots to get within 100 meters before openning fire. In his rules for air fighting (Dicta Boelcke) he states,
"Rule 3. Only fire at close range, and then only when the opponent is properly in your sights"

Manfred von Richthofen 80 Claims and leading WW1 Ace
"I calmly let him shoot, for even the best sharpshooter's marksmanship could not help at a distance of 300 metres. One just does not hit."


Many of the top aces (such as Dallas, Little and Bishop) note in their combat reports about getting to point blank before opening fire. A typical (but chilling) example of this is taken from a letter from René Dorme to his parents,
"I murdered him in cold blood, by surprise; and I sent ten rounds into its arse at a range of less than ten meters, under his tail. The devil take his soul!"

All I pointing out is the top WW1 flyers all though it neccessary to get close (preferably less than 10 but definately less that 100 meters/yards) for a victory yet I'm constantly being shot down at three times that maximum range in Rise of Flight.

It is my opion based on the quote from the guys who were there that the machine guns in Rise of Flight are far too accurate and hence destroys the historical accuracy of the game.

LOL

First theres AI sniper complaints, now there's Player sniper complaints?

Heh, in all seriousness though... I've been known to get a few "magic BB" shots at extreme ranges. And while I completely follow your line of logic, please consider ONE thing...



In ROF where I have no threat of actually "dying" and ending my life, I take bigger chances, mainly longer range, higher deflection shots....with no consequence other than starting a "new life".

...now were I actually in a real DR1 with an SE5 high above me, no, I'd hold that shot and wait for him to get close.


I can't see your examples as proof of saying it "cant" be done...more just IT SHOULDNT BE DONE.


Set up your views correctly, become very familiar with your "sight picture" and it becomes easier to get those long range high deflection shots.

S!

Wasn't that MvR quote made just before a rear gunner, with a little pop gun, shot and injured him at 300 yrd's +.

I'm sure they wouldn't shoot unless they knew they had a good chance to hit. Want to save ammo, and energy, and not want to get the guns jammed with useless shooting.

I bet that for 95% of the players, especially the casual players, shooting down an enemy plane at more than 200 meters without unlimited ammo, is so unlikely that it does not worth trying.

For a large majority of players, RoF is difficult enough. You cannot set the difficulty of a game according to the ability of 1% of them.

It could be a problem online, but this is a general problem of online games. Some people are so skilled and well trained that it kills the fun.

About mg dispersion: MGs never killed infantry over 300m as it was imbosible to hit,right?

The reason for long range sniping by players is unrealistic zoom feature.
It's pathetic seening in videos how players use terminator zoom to observe and correct aiming.
This trend of including zoom should die already. We are way past 320x200 resolutions...

I think that anything over 150 meters is going to be a fluke hit.

Ill sometimes chance a long range burst to try and force an enemy to dodge so I can catch them up. The vast majority of times i hit nothing.

From what i can see the ballistics in ROF are modeled well, and you do get dispersion and bullet drop.

Also I dont find anything gamey about the zoom feature. I real life your vision has a much greater resolution than anything a computer can churn out.

Realistically your eyes would produce an image closer to full zoom with the feild of veiw you get fully zoomed out. As our monitors cant reproduce this the variable zoom is a good work around.

Many versions of the mainstay heavy MG of the time (Maxim.) Mainly the German MG 08 and the Vickers machine gun, With a calm shooter (Depending on training, which indeed reduced as the attrition went on.) was indeed capable of bringing down enemy infantry at large, in the open at about 700 meters.
But during those mass infantry assaults, the defenders usually held their fire until the usual 250-300 yard mark in order to preserve ammunition and increase efficiency, as sick as it sounds.
Most MG gunners simply set their MG tripod elevation trim for chest/abdomen shots at this aforementioned range mark, and when the order unfortunately came, simply rake fired along the front of the assault...

The 7.92x57mm IS regular ammunition type has the ability to inflict mortal wounds from 0 to 4000 meters, and indeed, some MG 08`s were equipped with sights giving a well trained and confident gunner the ability to land some hits or at least give the allied blokes a reason for discomfort at almost 2000 meters. The MG08/15 used on german fighter planes of ww1, all though having a smaller barrel load (For weight reduction.) and sitting on relatively unstable platforms in comparison, had a slower rate of fire (Increasing accuracy a tad again). In a simulator where theres no real fear of death (And thus increasing the chance and even temptation of taking risks). And with an experienced bloke behind the stick, landing hits at 300-500 meters during the conditions described here, does not sound impossible, allthough knowing he/she wont be able to kill you, the theory is probably to make you do a mistake or simply be awed by his ability, but if you really were that far above and away from him at such an angle, you wont have the time to dive down on him before he counters your move anyways, dogfighting is science

I have played ww1 sims since 6 years of age and dare say I know how to handle any virtual crate with a bit of practice.
I get nervous playing online (Sudden adrenaline rush during a fight.) so my accuracy isnt as good as in single player, but the first kill I ever got online, I started firing and landing consistent raking hits with almost no misses along his entire fuselage at about 200 meters whilst rapidly closing on his SE5a (He was stalling and was sideways so he presented me with a larger target.) I simply kept firing and hitting until it was time to avoid hitting him with my DR.1

And last night, with a bottom left wing missing on my DR.1, I could only turn stable to the right, but still got hits and eventually downed a Spad 13 during many deflection bursts in that turning fight, at a range of about 250+-. So 500 with a perfectly healthy and stable bird really doesnt sound unlikely if the pilot really knows how to handle his crate imho

I wonder how those Aces back in these days could be so sure about not being able to hit on long ranges. They didnt have replays. Non-lethal hits can't be recognized at that distance - a problem you can even encounter in ROF (also on close ranges). I often hear friends complaining they don't hit anything but I was watching their victim and they did it.... they just didnt kill it.
(non-counted air kills, especially opponents pressing finish also have a big impact on the personal oppinion here).
And as someone said. The Aces recommended to shoot at close range maybe just because of saving ammo, avoiding jams (I guess the guns were more difficult to unjam in reality) and not alerting their opponent.