Hello everyone,

I would like to have your opinion about dogfight tactics in RoF.

When you read about them on the web, you find that there are basically two main tactics: turn and burn, zoom and boom.

When you have a powerfull but not too manoeuvrable plane like a SPAD XIII, the suitable tactics is zoom and boom.

If I understood well, it implies that you fly over your enemy, you dive on it, you shoot, then you go back high in the sky.

However, that sounds really theoritical to me. It takes five minute to prepare a single attack, where it is very likely that you don't manage to manoeuvre correctly, and even if you do, you have one second to achieve a very tough deflection shot. And even if you achieve this, considering the damage model of RoF, it would takes 5 successfull attacks like this one to shoot down your enemy.

Or at least it is my feeling.

Even with a SPAD, I really feel like it is far easier to engage the enemy (AI) in turn and burn until he makes a mistake, so that you can be in his 6, in a confortable shooting position where you have all your time to align him and send several deadly bursts.

What do you think? Do you really use this "pure" zoom and boom tactics in RoF?

Videos would be welcome, too...

I dont as I tend to only fly the german aircraft. However if you dont use Boom n Zoom in an allied plane (Camel and N17 being the exception) your going to struggle. My greatest delight is to see a Spad or SE5a try to out turn me. Its like someone has just offered me a free kill.

The well powered allied planes are able to climb and reach much higher speeds than the germans. To be used effectively you need to take advantage of this. Speed & Height is a massive advantage to any combat situation as you can dictate what is going to happen in the fight.

It really doesnt take 5 mins to set up an attack. Really you should be higher than the opposition already and its just a case of a diving down, pull up once youve passed the opponent back to altitude and rinse and repeat until you down your opponent or have to head back home. Just keep your speed up and that poor sluggish german will be stalling all over the show trying to get near you.

Its a fluid thing rather than being made up of static stages. It its harder to begin with than Turn n Burn but used effectively your practically invunerable and can leave the flight whenever you want.

Failing that, Try the camel or if your really brave the N17

Problem as I see it is that in the game the AI seems to have 100% situational awareness right now.
So the only shot you get using this tactic seems to be a poor deflection shot against a more maneuverable aircraft. The element of surprise isn't factored in at the moment as far as I can tell.
You can go inverted and try to pull out behind an enemy but to succeed before he turns you need to pull out so close to him that you don't have time to line up since the speed difference is so great.
Perhaps I'm just a crappy pilot but I've switched from my favourite plane of ww1 (the se5) to the camel.
Love the game though !

My experiance is primarly online. I always know when a SE5a is diving down on me as they emit a rather nice whine from their engine.

Im not sure how the AI reacts, TBH i would be surprised if you can blind side them. Others are probably more qualified than me to comment on AI behaviour.

I dont think your a crappy pilot, but ROF demands practice above all. The good thing is once you nail it the sense of satisfaction you get is fantasic.

Personally, Im a dyed in the wool Turn n Burner, its just the way a prefer to fight. It could be you're the same. See how you get on with the camel. Be careful though, it can be a tricky beast.

Parachuteprone, it is not that big disadventage. As Squid said, even online you dont surprise your opponent that much (because of engine sounds and because online pilots learn to look behind regurarly). You just need to practise your deflection shots and you will be hitting even when enemy try to evade (usually just couble of bullets, but after several such a attacks they start to feel the hits)

I cringe every time I read this.

The truth is that there isn't this huge difference in tactics.

Instead of putting a big wall between types of tactics, think energy management.

Energy is everything in air combat; the guy with the most energy wins 99.9% of the time, as he gets to dictate the fight. This is why all the literature talks about higher airspeeds and altitude, and is the reason fighter pilots could dive away from a fight (their opponent wasn't willing to give up the energy built up from gaining altitude in case there were other enemy about that hadn't).

Each aircraft has a band of energy they call home, based on our friends Thrust, Lift, and Drag. The fourth factor, Gravity, is a mean old man we don't really consider our friend.

Let's take a look at two aircraft, the DR1 and the SPAD.

The DR1's band of energy is between 70 and 110 MPH; slower or faster and maneuvering options narrow considerably. Against a slower opponent, the pilot will attempt to keep within this band, meaning that he'll likely try slashing attacks; against a faster one, he'll turn to keep the nose pointed at the enemy and try to get him to blow his advantage and come within the DR1's energy band.

When a SPAD becomes "low and slow" against a DR1, it's only "low and slow" for one of them, if the DR1 has done his job correctly.

The same is true for a SPAD; its energy band is just higher than the DR1's.

Each also has a different energy taxation table. The DR1's tax for diving, owing to its high drag, is higher than the SPAD's, which has cleaner lines. It's lower for the DR1 in a tight turn, however, owing to CG and those great lifting surfaces.

The combat maneuvers are identical for both; the only difference is the parameters for each aircraft.

When two aircraft get into a scissors fight, it doesn't matter if it's a MiG 29 and an F-15 or a DR1 and a Nieuport 17; they're both scissors with the only difference being the airspeed at which they are accomplished.

In RoF, the AI is pretty good in that they make some very human like mistakes as well as capitalizing on advantages. They're also held to the same FM as the player, which is a godsend.

Since I'm usually in the "inferior" plane (Noop 17), my goal is to have the other guy either blow his energy or start out at a higher energy state and keep it. Once I have the upper hand, it's a matter of patience.

My gunnery stinks! I haven't gotten a handle on muzzle velocity, so timing shots has been vexxing for me at deflection. Therefore I have to get the other guy dopey and at the lowest part of his energy band while staying firmly in the center of my own. One can do this by the ten percent taxation rule.

Every time the enemy gives up 100 meters of altitude he loses ten (at a minimum) on the zoom back up, as he doesn't have a one-to-one thrust to weight ratio. If I can keep my own losses down to five (or not at all), eventually he'll be taxed right down to the bottom of his envelope. We've all been there; the options become slip right or left, dive, fly straight, or gentle turn right or left. Rolling at the bottom of the energy well is always tricky, as it usually winds up as a dive.

Folks at the bottom of that energy well are known as crops, ready for harvest.

Energy taxation is usually due to our good buddy the rudder. The cleaner one flys through the air, the less the drag. The less the drag, the fewer the taxes. The flip side is that the straighter the line, the easier the target.

There are a few rules of thumb, though, that help. When you commit to an attack, commit to it. Always follow through with the attack and fly through the maneuver. If one has committed to a slashing attack, do the slashing attack - dive, level up, climb back up. Don't get all crazy with rudder and slip and roll and whatever else you can think of halfway through - it's a high risk/low gain gamble that most always brings a heavy energy tax, reducing your combat options. If you've mis-timed the attack, it's okay; just don't make things worse! Follow through and set up for the next one.

Know your plane and the enemy's plane. The Camel turns best to the right, and because of this, everyone turns left against it. If I were a Camel pilot I'd be practicing left hand turns and setting up attacks that were offset to the left of the enemy, anticipating the turn in that direction. The DR1 climbs like nobody's business, so get ready for them to try and take the fight to the vertical, which means that you'll be doing a lot of extending away or following along (if you anticipate correctly from a closing six position).

Body blows do all the work in the ring; the knockout punch to the head usually comes after several rounds of whacking to the ribs. The slap of rounds across an enemy's wing isn't spectacular, but it weakens his plane and adds to the energy tax. Any attack that results in putting injury on the other guy's plane is a successful one, especially in RoF, where one can shred a wing right off in a manuever that before seemingly minor damage to a spar would have been perfectly fine.

Fight to live another day. If you think the attack is a bad idea, it is. Pass it up and look for a better setup.

The bigtime online Aces that never seem to be beat are very good at this. They wait until they have a good setup with a clean egress for attacks. Instead of Uncommon Valor, try to attain Slightly Better Than Average Valor. You won't get as many medals, but you'll beat the actuary tables.

Ya I can get kills with deflection shots (Usually don't know I killed anybody til I see the stats at the end :))
I guess its like Squid says - I'm a turn & burner - I like to get behind my enemy and try to chase him all over the sky. Doesn't seem to work for me in the SE5. Have read Tiger Squadron by Ira Jones many many times so have always been an SE5 fan - plus I like the look of the plane but I can't seen to get onto anybodys tail in it .
Having lots of fun in the Camel though.

That being said, I find the Se5a the easiest plane to survive in, stay fast & make a gentle climbing turn after an attack & you rarely get hit.

Well, SE5a was never turn fighter Its strong points are good climb, excelent level speed and dive (and it is excelent in dive in game too aslong as you learn to watch out that engine ).

Totally agree with everything youve said Dart.

Problem is, online at least, if your flying German, your going to be an a height/energy disadvantage in an intital merge.

As you say your only option is to get them bleeding energy down to your level where you can deal with them. If the guys good he wont let this happen. Ultimatley unless he screws up, 9 times out of 10 theres little left for you to do.

Thankfully in ROF mistakes are common due to the excellent flight model we have.

Given the time frame we play in (1917-1918) the germans could just not compete with the quality of allied planes being produced.

If ROF winds the clock back the situation will reverse.

How much success do you get in the N17? I respect you for chosing it, because to me its a deathtrap.

If ROF winds the clock back the situation will reverse.