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#2893773 - 11/03/09 07:25 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released ***** [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
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Gremlin_WoH Offline
Wings Of Honor
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Germany
Patrick Wilson sent me a new version of RoFCampaign this morning: 20091102-0901_RoFCampaign.zip

If you did not download it yet then grab it here -> RoF Resources: Gameplay Enhancements

Cheers


Gremlin_WoH

Wings Of Honor - Where Combat Simulation Begins!
Your W.W.I Flight Sim Resource: News, Forums, Links, Downloads ...
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#2893796 - 11/03/09 08:14 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Dart]  
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Dart, I don't buy that...

Blowing the engine trying to match some arbitrary ground speed while heading into the wind yes... Daft but I can see it being possible...


Turning around and blowing the engine while heading downwind, while presumably under the same waypoint type, and without a possible attempt to make-up time with higher engine settings, and I cant' see it...

Sounds like goofy FM coding. You do not fly relative to the ground, but instead relative to the wind, so whatever the wind does just helps you get lost more easily and complicates/eases landing... It doesn't change rates of turn, airspeeds or propeller revolutions.

#2893802 - 11/03/09 08:20 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Lieste]  
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Flew my first mission in your campaign last night.

More than an hour (certainly my longest cross-country so far in RoF).

Never saw another plane (I attribute that to the random nature of the program). Stayed at 10-11,000 feet in an SE5a.

But (the important part to me) was that my two wingmen took off with the and formed up with me when I hit the 5 key and landed with me (well, one tipped over on his nose).

Some combat would have been welcome but everything I saw seemed to work just fine.

Nice!

HT


Exceptional engineering...and a large hammer to make it fit!
#2893817 - 11/03/09 08:41 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: HotTom]  
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 22,913
Alabaster, AL USA
Quote:
Sounds like goofy FM coding. You do not fly relative to the ground, but instead relative to the wind, so whatever the wind does just helps you get lost more easily and complicates/eases landing... It doesn't change rates of turn, airspeeds or propeller revolutions.


Precisely.

It's about duration of engine stress, not wind direction.

While ground speed is greater, not airspeed; unfortunately, without a replay function and full instrumentation we can't validate either way.

I have found zero change in engine RPM's when flying into, across from, or with high winds in the same settings and altitude. If it did change, it would be an FM coding issue; I simply can't replicate the supposition that wind speed has anything to do with engine RPM's.

Try it out yourself - it's an easy one to validate!

That's why I believe it didn't matter if he had turned or not; the engines would have burned out at the time mark in the mission regardless of wind. Another possibility is that the next waypoint, which was downwind, had a lower altitude. If the WP speed was greater than the max speed of the type and the AI went for it, they could easily over-rev and burn up their motors.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2893823 - 11/03/09 08:53 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Dart]  
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Lieste Offline
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I may have misunderstood, but I read it that the AI planes burnt out their engines soon after the turn, I (possibly mistakenly) took this to mean that at a speed and 'duration' the player aircraft was happy flying the AI suddenly all died while running down-wind.

BTW, I'd love to test it. Send me a replacement machine that will meet the minimum requirements and I will biggrin

Still running a 1Gb, 2.4GHz single core, non NT P4, with Ti6600 AGP4x 256MB, (also insufficient usable free hard-drive space). With luck and a following wind this may change next summer, but I see no new box till then.

#2893849 - 11/03/09 09:24 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Lieste]  
Joined: Sep 2001
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 22,913
Alabaster, AL USA
I think you read it the same way I did, which is why I had to check it out!

Oh, I wish I could send you my current machine (after replacing it with something beefier!).

We really need folks like you that can take a close look at FM's using a knowledgeable eye.

And we need that replay function (c'mon, 1.009!); hands free eval is the best way to watch for goofy stuff.

I was very confident that RPM's wouldn't be tied to ground speed simply because it would be the hardest way to program the FM. It's much simpler to work the FM/engine management first and then do the positioning against the ground, factoring in IAS, direction of travel, and wind. In fact, one could have two people working nearly independantly on each - so long as they spoke in the same language conventions it would be nature's own to sew them together.

Of course I could be completely wrong on how such things are coded!


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2893855 - 11/03/09 09:35 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Dart]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Lieste Offline
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Did you successfully carry AI wingmen with you? I don't doubt for a second the player aircraft is correct, but an inadvertent bug when handling some AI function is still possible.. (especially since 'bomb-less' aircraft scripts are not human flyable (my quick skim take on the 'removing bombs from AI aircraft' thread))

#2893873 - 11/03/09 09:53 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Lieste]  
Joined: Sep 2001
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
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Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 22,913
Alabaster, AL USA
I do at that!

Standard AI caveats - when they're not overly smart, they're incredibly dumb.

They fly in perfect trim, but will run their engines to the point of over-rev at times. They'll walk the stall and then dive too fast and lose a wing now and then.

The bomb thing is silly. The default layout in arming planes is "full boat." If the Camel has the option of carrying four bombs in the layout, the default is four bombs, as that is the greatest munition allowed.

In the stock campaign, one has zip to say about any plane's loadout but one's own; that's why as leader you've got to tell them to get rid of them on a fighter sweep. I don't know if Patrick has cracked that nut or not in his campaign engine.

Not to play my own horn too loud, but the RoF campaign thread I'm writing in the AAR forum is truthful in the missions; it's only the stuff outside of the missions that's complete fabrication. Lots of the good and bad of AI is in there.

Now that we've managed to bump the thread by way of derailment, let's try to get it back on topic:

Is there an updated readme file to go with the updated engine?


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2893875 - 11/03/09 09:58 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Gremlin_WoH]  
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Bleddyn Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted By: Gremlin_WoH
Patrick Wilson sent me a new version of RoFCampaign this morning: 20091102-0901_RoFCampaign.zip

If you did not download it yet then grab it here -> RoF Resources: Gameplay Enhancements

Cheers


Thanks for the update Gremlin.. any list of changes/fixes since the last?

Also, if I may make a request for future versions. It would be nice to be able to select N.17 Squadrons. They may be available for French (haven't tried), but they are not available for British. I also was unable to do Alb D.III careers.


"Yn y Nwyfre yn Hedfan"

"Hovering in the Heavens"
No.10 RNAS / No.210 RAF motto
#2893896 - 11/03/09 10:32 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Bleddyn]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 177
Gremlin_WoH Offline
Wings Of Honor
Gremlin_WoH  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
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Germany
Originally Posted By: Bleddyn
Originally Posted By: Gremlin_WoH
Patrick Wilson sent me a new version of RoFCampaign this morning: 20091102-0901_RoFCampaign.zip

If you did not download it yet then grab it here -> RoF Resources: Gameplay Enhancements

Cheers


Thanks for the update Gremlin.. any list of changes/fixes since the last?

Also, if I may make a request for future versions. It would be nice to be able to select N.17 Squadrons. They may be available for French (haven't tried), but they are not available for British. I also was unable to do Alb D.III careers.




Patrick Wilson wrote this:

Quote:
Line size is now normal.
I added a TL from the timer to the formation MCU.
I added a config file (RofCampaign\data\RofCampaign.config) that specifies some fonts and parameters. If you don't have a font on your system or you do not like the ones that I chose you can change them.

Also in this version:
Added variable weather.
An eng file is now created but I still don't have mission description working properly. If somebody can take a look at it and give me a hint it would be appreciated.

The only known bug is the lack of an in game description. Since I provide this in my mission page I do not view it as a show stopper.


Hope this helps. Had no time at all to try out RoFCampaign.


Gremlin_WoH

Wings Of Honor - Where Combat Simulation Begins!
Your W.W.I Flight Sim Resource: News, Forums, Links, Downloads ...
#2893972 - 11/04/09 01:09 AM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Gremlin_WoH]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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PatrickAWilson Offline
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PatrickAWilson  Offline
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Tx
Some notes:

1. Wind is too strong - I have already changed that.
2. Altitude is very high? In 1918 the low flights were going in at 13000 feet with high flights stacked to 20000. Note to self - make altitude type dependent.
3. Overrev on DRI. Probably due to 105 MPH flight speed for scouts. That was OK before the DRI and Camel (N17 does not figure as the campaign starts in Sept 1919) but not anymore. I had a todo to make this aircraft dependent but I will have to expedite that.
4. Poor performance - currently undocumented feature is RoFCampaign.config in the \RofCampaign\Data folder. You can change the base number of allied and entente flights. Random element is not yet changeable. Suggest setting friendly flights to zero to eliminate some of the load. I want to add a configuration screen that will allow the user to customize as much as possible.
5. Bad spawn points. This is either bad airfield configuration or I am backing the aircraft up too far. Not much that I can do about the first one other than move the squadron. The second I can fix. Please PM me with the squadron name and airfield.

6. Skies are too empty. Some notes on the mission generator and some ideas as to where it could go.

The mission generator is coded to generate possible "opposition" flights while others are totally random. The odds of generating an opposition flight is 30%. Opposition flights will fly near the player's waypoints while other flights will not. I can make opposition flight odds configurable, allowing players to increase the odds. I can also improve the opposition flight algorithm to increase odds of contact.

All missions originate within a certain radius of the player's airfield. No need to waste CPU on a flight in Verdun when you are in Flanders. However, I can improve mission generation by throwing away "garbage" flights - flights that are so far from the player as to make an encounter unrealistic.

Mission pathing will be ongoing. I have ideas and confidence that I can create a high likelihood of encounters without sacrificing the random element.

Thanks for the feedback.

#2893975 - 11/04/09 01:15 AM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 793
PatrickAWilson Offline
Member
PatrickAWilson  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Tx
One other thing - there is a memory leak in the code. If you go to too many screens it will die. Needless to say I will try to fix this.

#2893979 - 11/04/09 01:20 AM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
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Bleddyn Offline
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Vancouver, BC
Thank you for the info. Once this thing gets dialed in a bit I think it will be a very popular tool to add some life to the offline aspect of the game. Thanks for your work on this!

You should post this in the "3rd Part Apps" section on the RoF forums as well. There are still several people who go there for info and don't know about these forums.

If you do, send me a PM over there and I'll make it a sticky for ya.


"Yn y Nwyfre yn Hedfan"

"Hovering in the Heavens"
No.10 RNAS / No.210 RAF motto
#2894112 - 11/04/09 07:40 AM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,316
Boelcke Offline
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Boelcke  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,316
Dsseldorf Germany
Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
Some notes:

1. Wind is too strong - I have already changed that.
2. Altitude is very high? In 1918 the low flights were going in at 13000 feet with high flights stacked to 20000. Note to self - make altitude type dependent.
3. Overrev on DRI. Probably due to 105 MPH flight speed for scouts. That was OK before the DRI and Camel (N17 does not figure as the campaign starts in Sept 1919) but not anymore. I had a todo to make this aircraft dependent but I will have to expedite that.
4. Poor performance - currently undocumented feature is RoFCampaign.config in the \RofCampaign\Data folder. You can change the base number of allied and entente flights. Random element is not yet changeable. Suggest setting friendly flights to zero to eliminate some of the load. I want to add a configuration screen that will allow the user to customize as much as possible.
5. Bad spawn points. This is either bad airfield configuration or I am backing the aircraft up too far. Not much that I can do about the first one other than move the squadron. The second I can fix. Please PM me with the squadron name and airfield.

6. Skies are too empty. Some notes on the mission generator and some ideas as to where it could go.

The mission generator is coded to generate possible "opposition" flights while others are totally random. The odds of generating an opposition flight is 30%. Opposition flights will fly near the player's waypoints while other flights will not. I can make opposition flight odds configurable, allowing players to increase the odds. I can also improve the opposition flight algorithm to increase odds of contact.

All missions originate within a certain radius of the player's airfield. No need to waste CPU on a flight in Verdun when you are in Flanders. However, I can improve mission generation by throwing away "garbage" flights - flights that are so far from the player as to make an encounter unrealistic.

Mission pathing will be ongoing. I have ideas and confidence that I can create a high likelihood of encounters without sacrificing the random element.

Thanks for the feedback.


great stuff - thx a lot for your hard work, realy looking foreward to your next versions smile


skins and campaigns by Boelcke:

http://www.axis-and-allies-paintworks.com
#2894370 - 11/04/09 05:53 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Boelcke]  
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goodbrain Offline
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I wanted to set the friendly flights to 0 to get better performance, but I am not sure witch one to lower.
The allies and entente are the same people. witch one represents the central powers in the config file?

#2894796 - 11/05/09 10:40 AM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: goodbrain]  
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Ming_EAF19 Offline
Babelfish Immune
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London
Sticky please

I have ideas

You can say that again, thanks very much Pat!

Ming


'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
#2894833 - 11/05/09 12:41 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,179
WWBrian Offline
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WWBrian  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,179
Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
Some notes:

1. Wind is too strong - I have already changed that.

3. Overrev on DRI. Probably due to 105 MPH flight speed for scouts. That was OK before the DRI and Camel (N17 does not figure as the campaign starts in Sept 1919) but not anymore. I had a todo to make this aircraft dependent but I will have to expedite that.


Thanks for the feedback.



thumbsup

Nice! Thanks Patrick!


WingWalker (virtual) Combat Squadron

Intel i7 980X @3.8 GHz | ASUS P6X58D Premium | Antec 1200w PSU | 12GB 1600Mhz RAM
SLI - 2x eVGA GTX 580 3072MB vRAM | Dell 3007WFP 30" + 2x Dell 2007FP 20" @ 5388x1600 res.
Corsair Force GT 240GB SSD - O/S drive | Corsair Force 60GB SSD - ROF drive
WD VelociRaptor 300GB - Game drive | WD Black 1TB - Storage drive
CH HOTAS and TrackIR 5 +TCP | Realtek on-board sound | Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

#2894896 - 11/05/09 02:15 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: WWBrian]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 177
Gremlin_WoH Offline
Wings Of Honor
Gremlin_WoH  Offline
Wings Of Honor
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 177
Germany
New version 1.01 of RoFCampaign available for download -> RoF Resources: Gampelay Enhancements


Cheers


Gremlin_WoH

Wings Of Honor - Where Combat Simulation Begins!
Your W.W.I Flight Sim Resource: News, Forums, Links, Downloads ...
#2894916 - 11/05/09 02:40 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: Gremlin_WoH]  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
EAF_92 Whiskey Offline
Member
EAF_92 Whiskey  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
Suffolk, UK
I just know I'm doing something dumb but when I double click on the jar file it just opens up a Winrar window showing me the contents - nothing executes.

Someone please enlighten me!

WB.


I'm Spartacus.
#2895008 - 11/05/09 05:21 PM Re: ROF Campaign Released [Re: EAF_92 Whiskey]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 605
DoolittleRaider Offline
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DoolittleRaider  Offline
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Posts: 605
For some reason, I cannot fly the first mission. Complete slide show...worse...any input I make in key or JS buttons takes many seconds to activate. FPS is non-existent, so to speak. It's like the mission is Way too massively intense for my rig. I've tried the mission both normally, with high (Not Max'ed) graphics settings, and also will Very Low settings. Same result...Unplayable.

However, my rig plays all the other single missions available in ROF, Fly Now, etc, (and Very large, complex missions in IL2) without difficulty. Have I done something wrong with this Campaign generation? ....or is there some manual way of Down-Sizing the Campaign Generated missions? I found nothing regarding this in the ReadMe.

I see now that I might be able to delete all references to(Waypoints of)some of the Squadrons and Jastas in the "...MissionAnalysis.txt" file?? Would that be the correct way to reduce the complexity of the Campaign mission, thus making it flyable for me? I can't try that until later tonight, but it would help me before then to know if I am on the right track.

Is there some way that the ROF Campaign 'generation' could be automatically downsized/scaled by the user, similarly to the way that Laser DF Generator can be modified/scaled according to User preference?

Thanks in advance for any advice offerred.

My Rig:
Dual core E6700 Cpu
4GB DDR2 800Mhz
BFG 8800GTX w/768MB Graphics card
Windows VISTA 32bit

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