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#2889878 - 10/28/09 06:25 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: SimHQ Tom Cofield]
fatty Offline
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Originally Posted By: SimHQ Tom Cofield
Originally Posted By: Sim
Is there a video of it? They took it down...


I really don't think it's worse than Postal. Where you can taze someone until they pee in pants as poor victim is yelling for help and crying....


Postal developed a firestorm when it was released. It died pretty quickly because of it too.


Postal actually produced a sequel, another to be released soon, multiple add-ons, and a feature film. Just saying, somebody's buying it....
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#2889916 - 10/28/09 07:37 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: Blade_RJ]
Joe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Blade_RJ
now you're saying is not the atrocities toward digital virtual civilians AIs that is bad, but that you are the one to do it ? so its okay to have it in the game if it's not you doing it ? i dont quite follow you.

Reality tells us that violent terrorist attacks on civilians actually occur. Thus, in certain circumstances and presentations it may be a viable gameplay option to represent one of these attacks. Tom is saying that it is reprehensible that the perspective Activision has chosen for this scenario is that of the gun-wielding terrorist. The same scenario could be presented from the perspective of someone else involved or targeted in the attack.

In the end, Activision has the right to design their game in this way, but I do reproach them for choosing to present this scene in this manner (note: I haven't seen the video because it was taken down). I don't think it is quite like beating up hookers and stealing cars in Grand Theft Auto; GTA is an arcade game, pure and simple. Last I checked, in real life you couldn't steal a car, crash into things repeatedly, and in 5 minutes have militaty tanks and helicopters chasing you around. The Call of Duty series is of course not the most serious tactical simulator around, but it is much more realistic than GTA and as such a representation of a terrorist attack from the point of a terrorist is distasteful.

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#2889935 - 10/28/09 08:16 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: Joe]
Blade_RJ Offline
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I understand you point joe, but you along with some people are making a huge mistake here, you are all tapping the same key, call of duty is a realistic game, its it not and has never been, its a FPS, and from its roots, its a CINEMATIC fps, fact that was even one of the reason the series was heavily criticezed back then,as being on rails, too scripted, etc.

Now imagine this scene as a movie ? No one would made that much of a deal, there is munich, and many other movies wich shown terrorist acts from their perspective, people keep saying "but you are the one in control", so what ? as if i'm gonna simpathize with terrorists or become one now,in fact the repulse to cold blood murder will make you feel even more anger towards them, and this i think was their intention, and it worked, just look at the reaction here, but not as intended.

Cartoony or as you called arcade, GTA murder was worse then this, becouse as cartoony as it were, you were suposed to HAVE FUN doing so, not so much on this case, and as for the people who will actually have fun doing this, well they would certainly be doing so in other games, or watching horror movies, i mean arma 2 could be turned into a dictatorship genocidal simulator, why is no one complaining about that ?

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#2889994 - 10/28/09 09:42 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: Blade_RJ]
peppergomez Online   content
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at least they're taking a chance instead of coasting, gotta give them that
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#2889999 - 10/28/09 09:50 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: peppergomez]
aRareKindOfMonster Offline
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 904
Vote with your wallets, ladies.

Whatever you conscience tells you.

I might not even buy the game, but for other reasons, and this will not help either.

So, vote with your wallets.

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#2890021 - 10/28/09 10:46 PM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: Joe]
Kontakt5 Offline
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Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 4612
Originally Posted By: Joe


In the end, Activision has the right to design their game in this way, but I do reproach them for choosing to present this scene in this manner (note: I haven't seen the video because it was taken down). I don't think it is quite like beating up hookers and stealing cars in Grand Theft Auto; GTA is an arcade game, pure and simple. Last I checked, in real life you couldn't steal a car, crash into things repeatedly, and in 5 minutes have militaty tanks and helicopters chasing you around. The Call of Duty series is of course not the most serious tactical simulator around, but it


In real life you can steal a car and crash into things repeatedly- you bet; insofar as it is possible to do that, it's just that you couldn't do it for the same kind of duration in real life rather than being something that's barred or absolutely impossible. In real life you can pick up and abuse hookers and emulate a senseless rampage. Like all games however, what makes GTA removed from reality is that it's relatively easy to get away with it; a player survives situations that would stun or kill any normal organism with a central nervous system. You get killed and you just wind up in the hospital, or you just go back to the last save point. The intelligence of computer opponents never poses any serious, profound alternative to not doing these things- kill someone in front of a crowd of people, they might scarcely notice. You can shake the cops after about 2 minutes of running and the society in the game will eventually forget you are the world's most dangerous fugitive. You'll never go to prison or anything like that. Even such crimes of infamy which pretty much guarantee you can't retire to live a normal life ever again doesn't deter the player- there's just no continuity. It's not possible to program a game to have consequences which are that profound.

In 1976 an arcade game called Death Race with empty, monochrome graphics was outrageous in its time- psychologists and social critics of were at a loss to explain the point that deliberately running down badly drawn cartoon representations of living creatures could be fun.

Perhaps to an extent the post 9/11 world is what makes this game seem like it's a form of exploitation. People tend not to have a problem watching a movie like Die Hard or natural disaster movies or serial killer slasher movies- those things are good big money earning entertainment, even though I'm sure some people- people who may have known someone murdered or killed or in a natural disaster- might think less of them as entertainment but painful or sick reminders.





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#2890048 - 10/29/09 01:14 AM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: Kontakt5]
LawnDartLeo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 129
How's it go?... life imitates art, art imitates life... sumthin' like that, right?

Read any Tom Clancy novels lately? Any different? It's either visceral in your head or visceral in your eyes.

I don't have any particular issue with the game and its story line.
Honestly I think it resonates with a plausible future and THAT is I have a problem with.

Right in our back yard...

Neither Abdullah nor his co-defendants were charged with terrorism. But he was
"advocating and encouraging his followers to commit violent acts against the United States,"
FBI agent Gary Leone wrote in an affidavit filed with the complaint. The FBI said Abdullah,
also known as Christopher Thomas, was an imam, or prayer leader, of a radical group named Ummah
whose primary mission is to establish an Islamic state within the U.S. Abdullah told followers
that it was their "duty to oppose the FBI and the government and it does not matter if they die"
and to "simply shoot a cop in the head" if they wanted the officer's bulletproof vest, Leon wrote.

The affidavit also said bombs, guns and even the recipe for TNT were among Abdullah's regular
topics with his allies. Group members and former members said they were "willing to do anything
Abdullah instructs and/or preaches, even including criminal conduct and acts of violence," the
FBI agent wrote.
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#2890054 - 10/29/09 01:43 AM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: LawnDartLeo]
Lord Flashheart Offline
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Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 347
Loc: London, UK
On the face of it - an 'airport terrorism simulator' looks like a gigantic mis-step...

However I suspect there's more to it than that - and that the context will reveal more.

There's a CIA logo in the loading screens and something about a deep cover agent inflitrating a terror group, so maybe the guy playing + recording this was being a di*k and its possible to get through it by not shooting civilians?

Maybe its another CoD4 nuke scene where you are doomed anyway (the gang figure out soon enough you aren't one of them even if you go postal on the civvies) and the object is just to survive and blend in long enough to pass on a piece of critical info...?

I can't believe that a major US developer + publisher would make a game which cast the CIA as actually helping the bad guys commit a major atrocity...

(and there was stuff in CoD4 if seen on its own, would probably bring out the Daily Mail headlines - 'crew expendable' the nuke scene, and field execution of prisoner....)
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#2890077 - 10/29/09 03:25 AM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: SimHQ Tom Cofield]
CurtisLemay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: SimHQ Tom Cofield
The problem is this speedo. We aren't talking about a game where you are going into combat. Combat games have been around as long as cowboys and indians, games that many of us played as children. This is a game in which you participate in wholesale slaughter of innocent individuals. It is an atrocity simulator pure and simple. You may shrug your shoulders and go 'big deal' but it is a big deal. We are traveling from games that are violent but at least give some kind of justification for violent acts to games where atrocity and slaughter are somehow acceptable.

Games where you are playing Soviet or German soldiers are games that have to playing German or Soviet Soldiers. I don't know of one game where you are called upon to slaughter civilians. There may be one out there but I doubt it would be that popular. Soldiering for the most part is an honorable profession and in general most games portray soldiers in honorable positions. Subjects, like that Nazi's and the Holocaust and event he role the Wehrmacht had in that horrible phase of our human existance have for the most part been taboo. Simulations where you randomly kill people have come up from time to time but for the most part these have been rare and with few exeptions have been given tons of grief.

Do you think the Native Americans in this country would stand for a simulation of atrocities that the occurred during the 1880s? I can imagine the firestorm that would occur if a game was released that allowed the player to participate in the murder of women and children, just the things that happened during that period. Likewise a game where you shove people into cattle cars or shoot people in the Gulags is in horrible taste. There is a reason that those games aren't made, it is because it sickens the average person.

Do these guys have a right to make this game? Yeah I suppose so. But that certainly doesn't mean that I don't have the right to object to it and to make my objections loud and clear. I have just decided that if Activision releases this game, with that gameplay option available then I will not buy a product from them again. My children will not play any activision game. I also suspect that there will be a widespread campaign to boycott their games. Activision sells a lot of games, they may pay more of a penalty for this than they suspect.



I have to ask Tom, Why only "women and children". Above you seem to get upset if someone were to release a game that allowed to participate in the murder of women and children, would the murder of men be OK then.

I have always found that word strange , the word being "women and children", it seems to me that we get way more upset when women (and children) die in a disaster, if a woman dies in combat, or if a woman is captured in combat (i.e. Jessica Lynch), men on the other hand are disposable.

If you have played FPS games, you have killed 1000s of virtual people, was it necessary to kill them, couldn't you have used stealth and gone around, OR did you plow thru them because you could (as the AI was crap).

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#2890087 - 10/29/09 03:55 AM Re: Activision pushes the edge with Modern Warfare 2. [Re: VF9_Longbow]
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