MattM, from same book (page 41): "Not even the Fokker triplane could follow a camel in a right-handed bank" -Capt Henry Winslow Woollett

I wouldn't read too much into the video as to the FM of the Camel versus the DR1; somehow I don't think Brian was giving it his all in a promotional video for the Camel.

It wouldn't be much of a "you have to get this" advertisement if the DR1 curled neatly around the Camel and shot it down, now would it?

There's a real danger in watching stuff like this, as pilot skills really matter.

I've out-turned zeroes in my Hurricane IIb against human pilots at equal energy states, which is supposed to be "impossible" in the IL-2 series. It was really a function of time in type rather than poor FM modelling; my opponent hadn't really flown Japanese planes while I have oodles of time in my beloved Hurricane.

I'm sure that DVII I tussled with online with my Nieuport 17 was cursing the whole time, as I'm fairly good with it - I certainly was cursing at him for knowing just how to keep it on the edge of the envelope and not allowing me to escape.

"It's the man not the machine," as the man says.

Dart, I agree. Thats why I hope Vati to show his mentioned aerodynamic analysis.

But he never shot down a Dr.1, so his statement might be a bit exaggerated. But it could also be that that depended on the Camel engine aswell, to some degree.

I wasnt aware that you have to shoot something down to make acceptable opinion about plane turn perfomance. Anyway I think it proves that that their turn perfomance was close enought for the right to have obinions to either way.

Clarify for me guys. Which side is either plane suppossed to turn better?

Camel - Right
DR1 - Left

?

Jason

From a pilot who never claimed a Fokker triplane One thing he is correct is that no plane could follow Camel's spin to the right which was trick used to get away when in trouble.

As for statistical pro et contra. Buy some books on Fokker Dr.I and its pilots and you will see plenty of evidence.
The analysis I spoke earlier is work done by me and colleague when we were testing the physics engine for our Condor sim and is not for public release. But I am not the only one who did it, use google and find it. It's quite popular topic for aerodynamic exercises as they have most complete data available.

In the end, I really do not care if you stay ignorant and believe Camel myths.

AS I said earlier. Not shooting Dr.I down dont mean he never fought against one and thus his opinion is just as good as anyone else who flied these planes.



I have plenty of books about Dr.1 and Camel which contradicts each other. I am waiting your proof it turned better to right as you claimed.

Apparently, the direction in which the engine rotates will produce the tightest turn. So the Sopwith Camel, with a clockwise rotation (from pilot's perspective), should produce a tighter turn to the right. Not sure if the DR1 has a counterclockwise rotation, but if it does, it should turn best to the left.

BTW, thanks for the vid!

My thoughts exactly. Visually it's a beautiful scene ain't it? The thing that always bothered me is why did Richthoven wing over to his left when it appeared he still had plenty of energy? Why allow Brown to get on his six so easily?


Thanks for the clip Jason. The HD clip is beautiful. Though I'm not sure if you were highlighting the Camel or those DR1 skins. SMASHING!