Yes, for FREE.





No, I'm not.

Read on why.



Let's face the fact, we have the two most well-known Great War planes here. They are almost guaranteed to attract at least some attention from other flightsimmers who have held back on buying the game up until now.

And once more, NeoQB is going to run into the very same brick wall. Not only will potential customers need to buy the original product, they will IMMEDIATELY need to go to the store and start spending even more money.

Bottom line is: a lot of these potentials' are going to collectively shake their heads and think something along the lines of: "Bah, I'll buy the game in a budget bin in a few years time, very likely with all the planes included". Or if they compare it to an MMO (who usually stop charging pay-to-play fees at the end of the game's life cycle), they'll just wait for the developers to make all the add-on planes free in a few years.



NeoQB has the opportunity to make a move that will be HUGELY popular with the existing community and more than likely attract potential customers who were shying away from the game's business model. New customers who spend money now and might, in time, spend even more money on planes.

Either way, this is a matter of customer psychology. And most of all: knowing when not to make money in order to make even more money later on.



In my opinion, if NeoQB is greedy and stupid, they will make us pay for the planes. And many of us will. But many of us won't. Especially considering the multiplayer issues.

If NeoQB is greedy and smart, however, they will give them away for free, cash in on lots of new players simply buying the game, and later on cash in on those same people buying more planes in the store!





Not to mention that this is the only way that we will ever see public multiplayer servers with only pre-1918 planes.

Otherwise, it means some people will always be excluded from playing on these servers, simply because they don't own any pre-1918 planes.

And let's be honest here, as awesome as the Dr. I and Camel are, they are fodder for 1918 planes.



Really, NeoQB, how bad is it to include 6 planes with the game, including the 2 most popular, if you plan on releasing many more?



My 2 eurocents.

S!

- Hb

Could be reverse psychology

You ask for it and they were going to do that but they can't now because that would be business suicide inviting all sorts of weird requests like free windsocks for every aerodrome

So in fact you're to blame

Ming

The Camel surely isn't fodder for 1918 aircraft.

And I think it would be a huge mistake to release these aircraft for free when they will surely be money makers!

Mea maxima culpa.





You're right, of course. (and I realise you're also being a bit sarcastic)

Then again, this is the Camel and Dr. I we're talking about.

My wife knows what a Camel and a Dr. I is!



I think this is the one thing they still need to give us, in order to make the starter package truly whole (along with a Dogight mode - okay and windsocks too... and a million dollars!).

And I do apologise if I somehow 'spoiled' the surprise.

SPAD XIII and Albatros DVa are not pre-1918? Who told you that.

If they would release these two planes for free, in one month we would here "Please release plane A and plane B for free! You did that with the last planes and it will help to attract even new players, like last time."

So no, i don't think they should release these planes for free. What they could do is let new users the choose to select 4 planes their version should come with. But this would also create problems online, if people don't have the planes used in the mission.

They definitely will be cash cows, in one form or another.

If we are to purchase them separately, they will be in my account as soon as they become available. No questions asked. And many people who don't own RoF will look upon this, laugh at me for paying even more money and go about their business.

But even if they are released for free and existing players don't need to pay for them, it would surely move quite a few more RoF copies out the door to new customers. Six planes instead of four is already sounding a lot more attractive.



NeoQB will make money either way. Perhaps not as much at first if they are released for free. Perhaps this is what will make the game break through even more. And perhaps new players will buy more planes later on.

There's a risk both ways, surely.

I think it's a risk they should take.

Speaking of reverse psychology...

After reading that, Neoqb probably has realized it has a weather vane monopoly and they're probably contemplating charging $100 for windsocks that work

HT

Neoqb did add free add-ons in the past. I have to agree with Ming's logic. The Neoqb team does not want to get the reputation for caving in every time we ask for goddies. Then again, it would be nice if we had a NEOQB Challenge; meet the requirements of the challenge and you get an exclusive plane, a month or two before it is generally available in the store. You pay the same price, but you get the machine sooner.

A DVIIF would be a nice machine for the first challenge. =)

I would reply, Ming, but I don't want to have to shell out 20 USD for the "Enhanced Ground Object Expansion Pack."



If I were a developer and I had only two aircraft to sell as add-ons, it would be the Camel and the DR1.

Oddly enough, I'm one of the few that's not really that excited about either as a flyable.

Now, then, if we could bump the Pup up in the modelling priority list I'd be very interested!

[edit]

I also think neoqb should have some sort of community awards.

Laser, PatrickAWilson, etc., that really have stepped forward to enhance the sim should be rewarded with flyable aircraft as they come out, as should the top of the Leader Boards.

Oh, and me. I should get them free, as I am simply a wonderful person once you get to know me.

Pup would be a sweet ride Dart. By the way, it is really cool how you demonstrate the capabilities of the Nieuport 17. The Nieuport 17 is a fine machine and you prove it! Now, if I could only land the 17 without keeping the ground crew up all night; I try to convince the ground crew that the Nieuport 17 is only a biplane on take off and always a monoplane on landing, but they won't listen.

Maybe I'm the only one making a big deal out of this, but we're not talking about some random free add-on.

We're talking about the Camel and the Dr. I.

I think it's a pretty big deal. I really do.

The thing I said before about my wife, well, I just tested this with a few random pictures from Google images. I asked her to tell me the name of the plane in the picture.

Well, it turns out I was wrong. About the other two, that is.

Transcript below.

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/07/spitfire.jpg

- Um... I don't know.
- White cliffs of Dover? World War II? Battle of Britain?
- No.
- Okay, no problem, next.

http://schema-root.org/military/weapons/aircraft/fighters/f-16/f-16.jpg

- Oh yeah those are F... F... Something.
- Six-
- Sixty?
- -n!
- What?
- Sixteen.
- Whatever.

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/unbranded/f/unbranded-fokker-dr1-red-barron-118.jpg

- That's the Red Baron Fokker.
- Yeah, close enough.

http://www.kitcutters.com/Nex/NexSopwithCamel.jpg

- That's a Sopwith Camel. Can I go now? And can you please not ask me these things again?
- Yes, dear.

Please note that I do not bring up RoF or WW1 at the dinner table, for reasons too obvious to state. In any case, she comes along with me to loads of museums and airshows. These are two that she always remembers.

Maybe it says something about my wife (especially that I needn't try this again), maybe it says something about me. But maybe, just maybe it says something about the planes in question.

I think they are more than just planes. They are icons. They're World War One air combat personified and exactly what NeoQB needs to interest people in buying this sim.

I rest my case.


Admin edit: please do not post images from other sites. Link to files instead.

LOL!

Going off-topic here, but I am also a huge fan of the Noop 17 and the Pup. My two favourite planes by far. Can't wait to buy the Pup.

For the Noop 17, I find that keeping it at full throttle and blipping it like crazy is a pretty safe way to land it. If I'm not mistaken, it's actualy the historical way. It needs a lot of power once on the ground to keep it from ground looping. Giving it short bursts of full power once you roll out and gradually building down speed seems to do the trick.

I'm not good enough to fly it into battle, though.

Hellbender,
I am certainly not knocking your plan. Yes, the DR 1 and the Camel are a big deal. It is because the DR 1 and Camel are so widely recognized that I would be reluctant to provide them for free. You see the opportunity to get people in using the most recognizable machines and I am looking at the most "sellable" machines. lol You have a sound argument, but it is a heck of a thing to ask a company to walk away from selling the DR 1 and the Camel.

I would like to see NEOQB make a lot of money up front, harness the time value and other benefits of having money sooner than later, and put some of that money into added work hours and added employees so NEOQB can accelerate fixing the problems in multiplayer and single player; I would not mind additional content sooner than later too. =)
All the best,
MJ

You are absolutely right, of course.

And I realise I may believe in Rise of Flight's bright shiny future a bit too much, really. Marketing and distribution both being very limited. They're not even bothered to try and get the game on Steam.



Selling these planes is indeed the easiest way out and the quickest buck for them to make. Whatever happens, I will have both planes in my account as soon as they are released, though I doubt I will use them much. I'm extremely excited about the fact that they will finally be part of the sim, not so much about flying them.

Truth to be told, I sort of dislike them both. And I'm sure many of us here are not that fond of them either.

But they are what they are: absolutely necessary. That's why I believe they should be included with the starter package.

Not to please the hardcore crowd who already have their 'obscure' favourite (Noop riders, represent!), but to get sales from more casual simmers and gamers who will, indeed, instantly recognise the planes.

When you read reviews of the sim in popular gaming press (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/riseofflightthefirstgreatairwar), it's one of the things that stands out: not enough planes included with the game. I still think their business model is sound, releasing MOST planes through the store.

But their needs to be a carrot for the donkey to come forward.

Honestly, I can't think of better carrots than these two. It won't make the starter planelist HUGE, but it will make it infinitely more attractive than it is now.



Anyhow, broken record, I know.

NeoQB will choose the safe route and sell the planes and we will buy them and people who haven't bought the game because the starter planelist is sub-par will stay away from it and that will be that.

I do believe this foreshadows the fate of this sim.

Hellbender,
I did not mean to imply that NEOQB is just going for the quick buck. I just meant that a "now" buck is worth more than a "later" buck; in terms of time value, etc. If NEOQB is well "oiled" up front, NEOQB can add on work hours and additional employees; we can get stuff sooner. Sorry for the confusion.
All the best,
MJ

I'd rather wait for another month but get a patch that would make game playable again....

No, that's fine, I understand perfectly.

And since the mirror thread on the RoF board disappeared, I think I'll ask a mod here to do the same for this one.

It's crazy, really, as I love RoF and only want NeoQB to succeed.

But I understand how this idea could be seen as offensive to some and will refrain from further comments on this matter.

I wish NeoQB to make a heap of money with these planes, so they can 1. fix the bugs and 2. evolve the simulator as we and they want. And i can't wait to fly the Camel.

S!

[mod]

Hellbender, we'll keep the thread open, as it meets TOS for the site.

Opinions thoughfully put forward with respect to contrary ones and those who make them are the bread and butter of SimHQ.

[/mod]