http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3871

and if noted somewhere else here, sorry.

//

Hello,

thanks Haja.

After reading this i am sure you will need a Cray computer to play a "normal" mission in Multiplayer. I wonder whether RoF will ever develop into something Red Baron has been, with those restrictions - or in maybe 10 years ?


Quote from RoF forum:

" ...

«Out of memory…» error

Recently, some users have encountered with this error ... It is time to talk about it in detail.

The reason for this error – not enough of virtual computer memory, which in any configuration is 2Gb.

I draw your attention to the phrase “a virtual computer memory”. No matter how much physical memory cards are installed on your machine - there may be any number – the application uses only 2 GB of virtual memory cause that is permitted by OS Win32, regardless of the overall RAM amount, which can be up to 6 GB. This is done to ensure that all users who have a Win32-OS computer have an opportunity to play the game.

What should I do to avoid this error?
The golden rule - do not violate the following restrictions. Namely:

For DServer hosters:
1. In a mission there should be not more than 3 different aircraft types for one coalition, i.e. the maximum number of different aircraft types for both sodes - 6.
2. All aircrafts’ skins should be default ones. In this case, application will be using the smallest possible amount of hoster’s computer virtual memory. As an example, every real default skin "eats" about 5Mb of memory, i.e. if a mission has 4 SPADs, each with default skin, it will be equal only to 5Mb of memory, because skins are the same and they are loaded once (in the beginning) and are assigned to all 4 SPADs. Conversely, if these 4 SPADs are ‘dressed’ in different skins, we will need to have more than 20Mb of hoster’s memory to display these four different skins, and the same amount of client’s (player) memory.
3. The maximum total number of aircrafts in a mission at any moment of time shall not exceed 30. This number includes both planes controlled by humans and planes controlled by AI.
4. In addition to aircrafts, there should be not more than 4 different types of ground objects per coalition (cars, trains, antiaircraft guns, cannons, balloons, etc.), i.e. maximum number of different types of ground objects for both sides – 8.
5. The maximum total number of ground objects shall not exceed 40 pieces.
6. At least once a day it is necessary to reboot a host computer.

It is also necessary to remember that the additional amount of virtual memory is consumed on the reproduction of various effects (tracers, fire, smoke, shoot, etc.), as well as on different sounds.

For the players (clients):
Everything that is written below is not required, but desirable.
1. If possible, unload from memory all third-party software (anti-virus, email applications, etc.).
2. For weak computers that meet only the minimum requirements of the game, it is desirable to use low quality audio and low quality textures (can be set in Settings.exe).
3. When continuously playing during a long time, it is desirable to reboot the computer at least once in 3-4 hours.

In case of observance of the abovementioned conditions and restrictions, the problem «out of memory ...» errors should not occur.

Sincerely, Lefty-neoqb

... "


Hmm, if NeoQb ever decides to expand, or better create a single career in offline mode, would those restrictions be gone in SP (?)

Greetings,
Catfish

You dont. I have mediacore system(E8400, 4Gb RAM, ATI 4870) and I can play multiplayer just fine.

It's more about limitations in building missions.



And now we get a little more about why DF mode wasn't automatically included at release.

I suspect they're working this one through for the update.

Interesting how 32 bit OS's cause problems.

what a nice optimised sim it is....what a laugh...Im sure now ROF is a piece of #%&*$# unoptimised crap of the software (letting FM aside)

Hello,

@ Mig77 and Dart:

" ... i have a mediacore system(E8400, 4Gb RAM, ATI 4870


" ... And now we get a little more about why DF mode wasn't automatically included at release...."
Interesting how 32 bit OS's cause problems. ..."

1st Mig77 while this is no Cray i would not call this a mediocre system - E8400 Dual core 3 GHz and 4 Gb Ram ?

2nd What Dart wrote is why i thought of a Cray: Limitation of 30 planes altogether with the limited performance of our current employed PC systems, 32 bit wise. So this may say (reading between the lines) that RoF will be open for better systems, and probably make use of faster and more Ram - this is what i would call potential. RedBaron took 5-6 years to develop new patches and a reasonable multiplayer, together with improved hardware. So this is indeed a chance.

What i meant is that at the current point there are some restrictons if you think about comparing the current possible 30 RoF planes and 40 ground objects in MP, to 100+ planes in RedBaron MP. But let's see, it is just the beginning. Thinking of the original RedBaron developer team and Sierra/Dynamix, there is sure much more dedication in RoF.

I still wonder if those RoF restrictions (32bit-wise, and memory) are also present in single play (player against 29 AI planes max. and 40 ground objects) - anyone ?

Greetings,
Catfish

I don't think it's about processing power or RAM, but how 32 bit OS's work with that RAM. I'll take a SWAG and say that RoF either tries to take priority in memory addresses, which causes a conflict with system stuff running in the background (and other apps like TIR running up front) or it doesn't get enough priority and winds up choking and crashing.

Clearly they found that 30 planes was the "safe" number before random crashes could occur, and that more than that had problems with 32 bit systems.

Interesting in that the problem disappears with a 64 bit OS.

Conceivably we could have 64 bit OS only DF servers in the future.

Catfish, I wouldn't see why the same restrictions are in single player as well, as this is a RAM address issue.

There's some build forward there; my guess is neoqb is betting that in five years the 32 bit OS will be as common as Win 3.11.

I think you could upgrade that 2 GB max to 3 GB max using the 3 GB switch and imagecfg. Don't know if that works with ROF or not. It's a bit strange that ROF wouldn't use more than 2 GB anyway.

But that's what you get, if you put high qualitity textures in a game, it was just a matter of time before the first games come out that would run into the 32-bit barrier.

It's not even to do with RAM especially I don't think - it's to do with virtual memory; the local paging file stored on the PC. 32-bit systems are limited to addressing 2GB of virtual (paging) memory, in addition to whatever quantity of physical (RAM) memory they're using.

Give the game (already a hefty memory drain) too many resources to load into the enviroment - too many different types of vehicle, too many types of aircraft, too many different skins - and it tries to address more than 2GB; and you get the Out of Memory error.

It should be noted that the game - regardless of OS - is set to ONLY use 2Gb, which is why 64-bit systems can have the problem as well. However, since a 64-bit system is more likely to have a large quantity of physical memory and so is less likely to heavily rely on paging, it probably explains why I've only had this specific error once or twice and you see less reports of it from 64-bit users.

For 64-bit systems they can add the LARGADDRESSAWARE flag to the game to enable additional virtual memory useage - it sounds (from other posts) like they're considering this.


If you think about a large mission like some on T&T - where there's maybe 8 types of aircraft, five or six types of additional unit - AAA, balloons etc - and maybe 32 aircraft, *possibly* each with their own different skin - well, at 5Mb per skin, you can be talking maybe 250Mb simply for textures alone.


This issue, as Dart says, has nothing to do with whether you're running an i7 920 or an E8400. It has everything to do with Neoqb trying to get the best out of the engine for their customers - to allow *everyone* to use the game whether they're on 32-bit or 64-bit systems.

They are right to be thinking ahead, but clearly it's a bit of a bummer. As for people saying it's unoptimized - there is an element of that, but those pretty graphics have to be loaded *somewhere*, and Neoqb can hardly afford to eliminate every 32-bit using customer out there.

I love memory management issues, they're very interesting problems to solve.
Wish Lefty gave more details. Good luck to them.