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#2882196 - 10/18/09 09:53 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Dart]  
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ElAurens Offline
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Rocketdog, I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

IL2 had an operational online component from the start, like fox3, it held my interest, in the beginning, and to this very day in fact.

Rof has not, in the least.

I hope they put it right. Really I do.

However, I'm not throwing good money after bad until they prove that RoF is more than an FM/DM beta demonstrator, because right now, that is all it is.


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#2882206 - 10/18/09 10:14 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: ElAurens]  
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Dart Offline
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In your opinion, of course.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2882209 - 10/18/09 10:17 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Dart]  
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ElAurens Offline
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Of course Dart, it is my opinion.

But apparently many others share a similar outlook.

We just want the thing working to an acceptable level is all.

I really don';t think that is too much to ask.

Do you?


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#2882222 - 10/18/09 10:44 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: ElAurens]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Except that the term "acceptable level" is open to interpretation.

RoF is at an "acceptable level" for me right now, and for more folks than you allow for.

Everyone - everyone - wants more than "acceptable;" we want "excellent."

This, btw, is the dividing line, IMHO.

"Broken." "Half finished." "Unacceptable."
"Runs well." "Some missing or odd features." "Could use improvement."

The thing is we're like parents arguing over a mixed report card. "Hey, an A in math!" "A D- in literature!"

The GPA of RoF is probably a middle C by way of high grades and low grades and nothing in the middle.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2882247 - 10/18/09 11:28 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Dart]  
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well, right now only 50% of ROF owners can play this sim (others, like me) cant because od performance issues after two last patches....all those who can play are offline it seams...only 20-30 ppl online every (?) night....sometimes not even 15....so I would say that interest is....weak at least

Last edited by Tvrdi; 10/19/09 07:32 PM.

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#2882260 - 10/19/09 12:00 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Tvrdi]  
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Masaq Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tvrdi
well, right now only 50% of ROF owners can play this sim (others, like me) cant because od performance issues after two last patches....all those who can play are offline it seams...only 20-30 ppl online evray (?) night....sometimes not even 15....so I would say that interest is....weak at least


Without wishing to sound rude, but you're wrong. And without wishing to sound arrogant, I know because I'm the day to day admin from the biggest MP server for RoF.

Tonight, every mission I flew in MP had a minimum of 15 players. For three of them, we were *almost* running at capacity. We had, in total, I'd estimate at around 50-60 unique (different) players on over the course of the evening - from about 1930GMT to just now. When I left, 5 minutes ago, at 1145GMT, about five-six new players had just joined the server even though it was now really rather late for EU players.

I see similar numbers *most* (not all), but most nights. We are frequently packed full at about 1500GMT onwards because that's when most of the Russian players are in their early evening time period.

I would estimate that our server receives over a hundred unique players a day, at a minimum. Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays we probably come close to double that.

Even when I'm not playing, I frequently have the console window to the server open whilst I'm browsing forums, catching up on paperwork or just watching TV or a film, and keep a pretty close eye on the server.

Why? Because unlike everyone moaning about the cost of $40 (or local equvilant) on this game, I keep paying every month for RoF. Not for the planes (although I do buy them), but because my money goes rather a long way towards paying for the T&T server - It works out that about 1/3 of the monthly bill is directly out of my pocket, supported by other members of the T&T community.

I have a vested interest in knowing exactly how many people are using our server because if no-one else but us used it, we wouldn't pay for it. It wouldn't be value for money. Right now, it very much is because we get messages of thanks from players; regular and new; every single day from people.

If MP was completely broken: T&T wouldn't have players, we wouldn't recieve postive feedback and and we wouldn't be running the server, end of. Sure, it needs improving*, but there are not 30 people playing online.


*And I'll wager that nearly every point I'd argue that was an area for improvement, wouldn't tally with 99% of negative opinions on RoF's multiplayer gameplay. Dogfight mode? Fine, yeah, whatever... what it *really* needs is a proper dedicated server process, auto-loading configuration files, the ability to be run as a service, ingame admin controls, the ability to properly ban an account and proper bandwith limiting for clients.

Only when THOSE points are fixed will you have a multiplayer mode that's *really* worth the effort.

#2882262 - 10/19/09 12:02 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Tvrdi]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Originally Posted By: Tvrdi
well, right now only 50% of ROF owners can play this sim (others, like me) cant because od performance issues after two last patches....all those who can play are offline it seams...only 20-30 ppl online evray (?) night....sometimes not even 15....so I would say that interest is....weak at least


And your statistics come from where, exactly?

Half of all RoF owners can't even get the simulation to run? Really?

First, please tell me the exact number of actual end user sales of RoF there are. You'd know that, right, as you also know half of the number!

Yep, multiplayer is weak.

However, most flight sims are flown in single player, not multiplayer, so one can never use multiplayer as a guess to actual sales.

Interest, oddly enough, is even more disconnected from this than sales. I am interested in sword fighting, but have no desire to purchase a sword. I am interested in the female cast of NCIS, but I am not stalking them.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2882316 - 10/19/09 02:17 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Dart]  
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ElAurens Offline
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Masaq, until dogfight mode is implemented, online is broken for most of us.

And the simple fact that you have 50 odd players ( at one time? ) and that does not show up on the lobby screen only reinforces the fact that even the lobby is broken.

Or is it that you have 50 different players over the course of the day? If that is so, yet further proof that online is a dead issue. And don't take this wrong, I am not criticising you or your server. But those numbers, for a sim that has been in release for what, 8 months, are dismal at best.

When the game was first released there was a lot of anxious folks wanting to get online in RoF, but I'm fairly certain that those numbers will never be what they once could have been because the "moment" has passed. With each passing day of no visible progress for the multiplayer issue, more people simply walk away never to return.

The success or failure of RoF really has nothing to do with what any of us say here. It's all in neoqb's court. If they can get their priorites aligned better, and focus on core issues, and not more new airframes, then they can turn this thing around.

It's that simple really.

Better campaign structure for offliners and a quality DF mode for onliners, and neoqb is golden.

Two new planes and some minor bug fixes and it's game over.


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#2882333 - 10/19/09 03:13 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: ElAurens]  
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Making an on-line coop server work and calling it multiplayer is like calling chicken, steak becasue they are both meat.

Multiplayer is broken until there are 24/7 DF servers IMHO and I have not played the game nor will I buy anymore planes until that is fixed end of story and if they don't think they have a problem why all the surveys they mailed out??

#2882350 - 10/19/09 04:02 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Masaq]  
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fox3 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Masaq
>snip<
Because unlike everyone moaning about the cost of $40 (or local equvilant) on this game, I keep paying every month for RoF. Not for the planes (although I do buy them), but because my money goes rather a long way towards paying for the T&T server - It works out that about 1/3 of the monthly bill is directly out of my pocket, supported by other members of the T&T community.



Not sure you gots the memo but FYI we ALL pay monthly to play this sim. Unless you can tell me otherwise how I can load single player w/ out my DSL connection? Or multiplayer even for that matter?

I complained about the $40 not because of the minor dent in the pocketbook but the fact that neocube felt it more important to release additional eye candy than fix the beta in its first patches. And hopefully I am wrong but I see a pattern here and my money is on us gettting more airframes than fixes in the next patch. Only time knows for sure and Be Sure I hopes I am wrong.

Thank you Masaq for your effort in helping to encourage this sim with the server you provide.

#2882353 - 10/19/09 04:13 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: fox3]  
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Originally Posted By: fox3

Not sure you gots the memo but FYI we ALL pay monthly to play this sim. Unless you can tell me otherwise how I can load single player w/ out my DSL connection? Or multiplayer even for that matter?


But did you get DSL just to play this game? Would you still be paying for the DSL even if you haven't purchased the game? It's kind of like saying you pay $40 a month to use Google.

Otherwise, yeah I'm in agreement that neoqb needs to get some more substantial updates out there. Hopefully we'll see some good new stuff soon...

#2882439 - 10/19/09 11:04 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: franksvalli]  
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Ghost_swe Offline
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"Is interest in ROF just about Dead??"


Yes it is for me.

Completly and utterly dead.


Honestly dont have the time to wetnurse a game.



Sry if i offended any regulars, just awnsered the question and im not gonna get sucked into a debate of rethorics, just awnsering the question like i said. wink


Last edited by Ghost_swe; 10/19/09 11:06 AM.
#2882441 - 10/19/09 11:17 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: BigJim43]  
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Masaq Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigJim43
Making an on-line coop server work and calling it multiplayer is like calling chicken, steak becasue they are both meat.

Multiplayer is broken until there are 24/7 DF servers IMHO and I have not played the game nor will I buy anymore planes until that is fixed end of story and if they don't think they have a problem why all the surveys they mailed out??


That's a flawed analogy, though. Multiplayer does NOT equal steak, multiplayer is the "meat" in your argument.

Where RoF is concerns It comes in several flavours - co-op and dogfight, "chicken" and "steak". Coop is still multiplayer even if you don't like it, and many of us actually like chicken just as much as steak. Hell, some people can't eat steak for religious reasons, and would be quite happy to be fed prime, corn-fed chicken all day long.

You'll also notice that no-one has tried to claim there isn't room for steak as well as the co-op chicken - least of all Neoqb who have said several times now that dogfight mode is being worked on.

#2882453 - 10/19/09 11:41 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Masaq]  
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ElAurens Offline
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DF mode should have been in the mix before release.

This was a huge mistake on the devs part and has cost them dearly.

/thread.


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#2882491 - 10/19/09 01:31 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Ghost_swe]  
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Tvrdi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ghost_swe
"Is interest in ROF just about Dead??"

Yes it is for me.
Completly and utterly dead.
Honestly dont have the time to wetnurse a game.


well said...but I need to nurse since I love my money....I gave for the bloody sim and additional planes....


Once upon a time, A. Petrovich wrote: "Thank you all, guys, for your attention to FM"
#2882634 - 10/19/09 05:25 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Tvrdi]  
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For many reasons I don't fly much but had one of those very immersive moments in simming. Usually I just fly some russian roulette stuff to practice flying and shooting, as the shooting is very tough in ROF unless your the AI. smile This time I selected a N17 campaign. I had never taken off in a 17, so after a couple of ground spins and finally lifting off the squadron was long gone.

Not finding a compass in the 17 I searched the terrain and map for some landmarks to establish a heading. Nearing the patrol area I found two aircraft and approached from behind to find they were both N17's. I wondered if they were part of my squad and where the other two were. The two N17 dove down and I spotted four aircraft swirling near the ground. As I dove two appeared to be fokkers so I continued the dive on one of them. Just as I was about to give one a good burst my right wing tore off. Cr*p.

It was probably a damaged wing I didn't notice during takeoff and/or excessive speed. Anyway it was one of my most immersive flying missions and left me wanting more. There are problems but I'm very optimistic on the long term future of the sim. The immediate future seems bright as well with the positive hints coming from the beta testers.

ROF has not been hurt in anyway by this Beta release. Sure there have been a few very vocal dissenters, but the fact they are still here venting every chance they get says they will be here when things get better. Most simmers will see the light at the end of the tunnel and either continue to fly or wait until ROF reaches a stage in development that more suits them.

I would much rather spend a few dollars to fly something now and help insure the future of ROF, than have it fail, with nothing to fly now or later.


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#2882705 - 10/19/09 07:28 PM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Chivas]  
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Dart Offline
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Yepper, maybe it's the NP17 campaign that's full of triggers for "unauthorized" flights and fights, but I'm finding the world in the one I'm flying to very busy!

And the Nieuport 17 will shed a wing in a heartbeat if any sort of negative strain happens to her at higher speeds. I've found that I can fly very fast and keep it together so long as the stick never, ever goes forward of neutral.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2882947 - 10/20/09 02:46 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: Masaq]  
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BigJim43 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Masaq
Originally Posted By: BigJim43
Making an on-line coop server work and calling it multiplayer is like calling chicken, steak becasue they are both meat.

Multiplayer is broken until there are 24/7 DF servers IMHO and I have not played the game nor will I buy anymore planes until that is fixed end of story and if they don't think they have a problem why all the surveys they mailed out??


That's a flawed analogy, though. Multiplayer does NOT equal steak, multiplayer is the "meat" in your argument.

Where RoF is concerns It comes in several flavours - co-op and dogfight, "chicken" and "steak". Coop is still multiplayer even if you don't like it, and many of us actually like chicken just as much as steak. Hell, some people can't eat steak for religious reasons, and would be quite happy to be fed prime, corn-fed chicken all day long.

You'll also notice that no-one has tried to claim there isn't room for steak as well as the co-op chicken - least of all Neoqb who have said several times now that dogfight mode is being worked on.


Well for me the point has become moot since Aces High II has just annouced it is going to produce WWI aircraft and a dedicated server to fly them in, RoF has waited so long, so long.

#2882957 - 10/20/09 03:23 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: BigJim43]  
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koala26 Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigJim43


Well for me the point has become moot since Aces High II has just annouced it is going to produce WWI aircraft and a dedicated server to fly them in, RoF has waited so long, so long.


Wow, that's huge. Did they give a time frame?

#2882959 - 10/20/09 03:26 AM Re: Is interest in ROF just about Dead?? [Re: koala26]  
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BigJim43 Offline
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By the end of THIS year so no longer than about 2 months. first plane set will be DRI, DVII, Camel, and the Fe2b

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